AVR sound and build quality

[LOUMFSG]

Let me start off by saying that I can't believe how hard it is to decide on an AVR. I have gone back and forth a dozen times on a few different makes and models. Each brand seems to have some flaw - a missing feature, not enough inputs, a quirky remote.

It is easy enough to line-up features and specs, but one thing I am having trouble with is sound and build quality. I can't seem to find one showroom where I can do side-by-side comparisons of the brands I want to compare.

For those with a lot more experience with this than me - how would you rank the following makers in terms of sound quality and build quality. By sound quality, I guess I mean full, clean reproduction of music (stereo and multi-channel), everything else equal. By build quality, I mean low failure rates, long-lasting durability and "feel" of the controls. The makers I am considering are:

Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer and Yamaha

A side question relates to THD and sound quality. How good of a measure of sound quality is THD? What other measures can you look at to determine the sound quality of a receiver (other than the obvious live listening test).

Thanks for your help

 

[j_garcia]

Monkey wrench... What about Marantz & Harman Kardon?

What price range? That alone can make a big difference from each of these manufacturers. Denon for example, I don't really like any of their lower models too much, it really isn't until you get up to the 3805 and above that I find them to be pretty good, and there's a pretty big difference going from the 3805 to the 4806.

IMO, first look for the features you MUST HAVE (auto-EQ, PLIIx, etc...) within your price range. Then go listen to the top 3 on your list and pick the one that sounds best to you. Seeing/hearing/touching these guys in person should give you the feel for build quality.

ALL manufacturers have issues with quality at some point or another, so it's tough to really get a good feel for it to compare one manufacturer to another. Usually, there will be issues right when a new line comes out, possibly localized to certain models, but usually within a few months, the issues are addressed (hopefully).

Lower THD is better, but it isn't going to tell the whole story, just like a claimed rating of 100wpc doesn't necessarily tell you how well an amp can handle a low impedance load.

 

[Mort Corey]

My last two AVR's have both been Denon units and have been 100% trouble free. I don't really subscribe to the notion of one brand sounding better or worse within the same price/model ranges. I bought the 3805 when it dirst came out to replace a 3300 (near ten years old) that no lives and gives great pleasure to my grandaughter. Since that model is now at the end of it's run, I've read that it can be purchased (from an authorized dealer) at around 30% off the price I paid....good deal IMO.

Mort

 

[j_garcia]

How can they not sound different? Amps alone have an influence on sound, though among similar receivers within a given price/power range, the difference is likely pretty small. However, a receiver has a lot of other things built into it that definitely affect the sound, not the least of which are the DACs used, and this alone will give two different receivers a different sound.

 

[Nomo]

OK I'll Bite

Leaving the price factor out of the mix, I repeat, leaving price out!
My ranking for sound, features and reliabilty:

#1)Denon
#2)Yamaha
#3)Onkyo
#4)HK
#5)Marantz
#6)Pioneer


If nothing else this should start one heck of an arguement

 

[mtrycrafts]

Let me start off by saying that I can't believe how hard it is to decide on an AVR. I have gone back and forth a dozen times on a few different makes and models. Each brand seems to have some flaw - a missing feature, not enough inputs, a quirky remote.

It is easy enough to line-up features and specs, but one thing I am having trouble with is sound and build quality. I can't seem to find one showroom where I can do side-by-side comparisons of the brands I want to compare.

For those with a lot more experience with this than me - how would you rank the following makers in terms of sound quality and build quality. By sound quality, I guess I mean full, clean reproduction of music (stereo and multi-channel), everything else equal. By build quality, I mean low failure rates, long-lasting durability and "feel" of the controls. The makers I am considering are:

Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer and Yamaha

A side question relates to THD and sound quality. How good of a measure of sound quality is THD? What other measures can you look at to determine the sound quality of a receiver (other than the obvious live listening test).

Thanks for your help

Don't sweat the small stuff, amps.
Modern amps operated in their design specs are transparent:

"Topological Analysis of Consumer Audio Electronics: Another Approach to Show that MOdern Audio Electronics are Acoustically Transparent", Rich, David and Aczel, Peter, 99 AES Convention, 1995, Print #4053.


So, you need to get one that meets your needs and is flexible to handle what inouts you have and can drive the speaker load you have. Everything else is baloney

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

how would you rank the following makers in terms of sound quality and build quality.

Build quality - believe it or not, all about the same. All are pretty durable products. Some of the US brands aren't as reliable, but customer service in the US is said to be second to none. I know (personally) Denon's service has been outstanding. For feel of the controls - Yamaha. I think the other three have a generic feel to them. To me, it's not an issue. I never touch my unit. All is done via the remote.

A side question relates to THD and sound quality. How good of a measure of sound quality is THD? What other measures can you look at to determine the sound quality of a receiver (other than the obvious live listening test).

THD is important. The better units are rated at .05 or less thd, at full bandwidth (20-20,000) and not 1000Hz, into 8 ohms (not 6). Although totally unscientific (no need to chime in on this one), the weight of the unit IMHO has a lot to do with the power supply and ability to drive demanding speakers. I put a benchmark of 33lbs on a very capable unit - especially for those demanding dvd's. It may not be as important to someone who is running Klipsch speakers, cutting the low crossover at 80Hz.

Some say the Yamaha's put out better bass than Pioneer and Marantz (similarly priced and spec'd units). Again, with the advent of the subwoofer and 5.1 system, not as critical.

The last issue of sound quality on a AVR is the availability of an eq, or better yet, a parametric eq. There's endless ways to tweak a system with an eq. Most of the higher end units have them, which is a "must have" in my book.

 

[Spiffyfast]

Leaving the price factor out of the mix, I repeat, leaving price out!
My ranking for sound, features and reliabilty:

#1)Denon
#2)Yamaha
#3)Onkyo
#4)HK
#5)Marantz
#6)Pioneer


If nothing else this should start one heck of an arguement

I think its funny that you put the Denon and Marantz on opposite ends since they are owned by the same company. The problem with ranking without price involved is that most of the time that is the first decision that is made what you have to spend on the unit. The second problem I have is the generic labeling of a brand and not individual models each brand has models that range in number of features/power/quality, someone may see this list and go buy the worst denon receiver out there take it home and be dissapointed b/c they looked at a list and it was made with regards to their 4806 and 5805 models, not the rest of the line.

 

[j_garcia]

Marantz & Denon are owned by a holding company, but they both operate completely independent of each other, so that has no bearing.

Denon would not be at the top of my list below $1.5K. Within a given price range, as a few have said, the differences between two quality units probably aren't going to be dramatic.

#1)Marantz-HK
#2)Yamaha
#3)Onkyo-Denon
#4)Pioneer
#10)Sony

 

[jaxvon]

What about that awesome Teac receiver Spiffy found awhile ago? It was like, 50w X5, no component video, all for only $679!

 

[Spiffyfast]

What about that awesome Teac receiver Spiffy found awhile ago? It was like, 50w X5, no component video, all for only $679!

yeah, I have to say, it gets my highest reccomendation for anything under 1k

 

[Nomo]

I think its funny that you put the Denon and Marantz on opposite ends since they are owned by the same company. The problem with ranking without price involved is that most of the time that is the first decision that is made what you have to spend on the unit. The second problem I have is the generic labeling of a brand and not individual models each brand has models that range in number of features/power/quality, someone may see this list and go buy the worst denon receiver out there take it home and be dissapointed b/c they looked at a list and it was made with regards to their 4806 and 5805 models, not the rest of the line.

Spiffy,
While I agree that price is always a factor, that was not the way the question was presented. That's why I qualified my response the way I did.
Had price been a factor my list would have been considerably different. Most likely, Pioneer and Marantz would have been near or at the top of the list, Primarily due to the recent pricing of the Pioneer 1014/1015 and Marantz 8400.
I do feel that within just about any price category similar comparisions can be made with all these companies.
If we're talking bang for the buck at internet sale prices on last year's models.... then the rules change and things get a bit more complicated. Exactly what I was looking to avoid.

 

[j_garcia]

There's a reason the 8400s are cheap...

Primarily due to the recent pricing of the Pioneer 1014/1015 and Marantz 8400.

They made the mistake of trying to reduce cost by using the chassis from the 7400, yet still charged nearly the same price as the 8300. The plastic front panel just didn't seem to go over too well in the $1500 MSRP range... So I don't think they sold so well, which is why you'll see them pretty darn cheap used these days. IMO, the 7500 is a better receiver than the 8400, and happily, the 8500 went back to using a heavy duty chassis like the 8300 (as did the 7500).

 

[James Elvick]

Pioneer Last??

No way would I list Pioneer Elite at the last of that list for quality. May be regular Pioneer.

I have had several Denons, HK, and Elite. The Elites have had the least amount of bugs, sounded excellent and just flat work good. This is coming from someone who really likes Denon and the HK sound too!!

The 56TXi sounds great and does more things right than any other AVR in that price range, for me. The upcoming 74TXvi looks even better.

YMMV

James

 

[bridgehl4]

How about the Kenwood?
Where it stands in the rank?