AVR Brand & Model Differences? (Onkyo Oriented)

[Award]

I realize this will likely result in a flame war, but I'm looking for something a bit more constructive.

I currently have an Onkyo 502, and 604 AVR. I'm pretty pleased with the Onkyo, and it's held up quite well (the 502 has held up quite well...it's 3-4 years old, but I don't expect it to last too much longer as it's almost constantly in use, so something HAS to burn out eventually )

I'm trying to line up the general direction I want to go when the time comes to replace it, but after reading more and more, I'm a bit curious as to what brand and models to look at.

I've noticed the trend on the Audioholics recomendation list has switched to Denon, and Onkyo not listed even in the alternatives and am curious what happened?

Also, I realize Onkyo, Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, HK, Pioneer are all good units and have a "different" sound, but I'm curious, in a textural description, what the differences between the signature sounds of each brand tend to be? (I'm sure it's equal but unique in each case.) I realize "audition them" is always the best solution, but I'm still curious about the descriptions in text on each, from those who have compared.

I'm pairing it to JBL Studio L speakers (maybe not the most elite of audiophile gear, but I like them, and that's what counts )


Also, even with sticking with Onkyo (which I likely will do since I don't have definitive reason to switch from a product line I like), does anyone know how big a difference there is as you move up the product ladder? To my ears, the 604 sounds noticeably better than the 502, but I haven't run it on the same speakers (though the 502 has the BETTER speakers ).

Overall another 604 (605 now) for this system would be a fair bet, but what would I SQ improvements over the 502 and 604/605 would I see from, say, a 705, or an 804/805? I probably wouldn't price any higher than the 804, but I'll throw 805 in there for the sake of argument.) Or is the difference all in the power output and the features/connectors, and they all have roughly the same SQ?

I don't need all the extra AV jacks (can't imagine who uses them all), though a second set of 7.1 analog ins would have been nice...I'm not aware of anything with that though anywhere near that price.

Thanks!

 

[MDS]

Also, even with sticking with Onkyo (which I likely will do since I don't have definitive reason to switch from a product line I like), does anyone know how big a difference there is as you move up the product ladder? To my ears, the 604 sounds noticeably better than the 502, but I haven't run it on the same speakers (though the 502 has the BETTER speakers ).

Or is the difference all in the power output and the features/connectors, and they all have roughly the same SQ?

The bold statement sums things up pretty well. However, there are subtle differences as you go up the line. For example, the 50x will never be able to drive 4 ohm speakers to very loud levels whereas the 7/80x will have no problems with lower impedance speakers.

The DACS differ too. The 5 and 6 series have used Wolfson or AKM (I think that's the brand) over the years but the higher series will move up the ladder with the current 805 using Burr-Brown. There are other subtle differences in bit depth and sample rate supported (24/96 vs 24/192) and which DSP processor is used. So in a nutshell the higher models are 'better' and offer a lot more inputs and convenience features but the SQ will be roughly the same unless you pick one that is not suitable for your purpose; ie picking the 5 series to use with low impedance speakers and a very large room.

 

[Award]

The bold statement sums things up pretty well. However, there are subtle differences as you go up the line. For example, the 50x will never be able to drive 4 ohm speakers to very loud levels whereas the 7/80x will have no problems with lower impedance speakers.

I'm running only 8 ohm at the moment (can't see that changing in the forseeable future)...my next upgrade path would probably be bi-amping the current speakers (and I'm not overly likely to do that for some time)

The DACS differ too. The 5 and 6 series have used Wolfson or AKM (I think that's the brand) over the years but the higher series will move up the ladder with the current 805 using Burr-Brown. There are other subtle differences in bit depth and sample rate supported (24/96 vs 24/192) and which DSP processor is used. So in a nutshell the higher models are 'better' and offer a lot more inputs and convenience features but the SQ will be roughly the same unless you pick one that is not suitable for your purpose; ie picking the 5 series to use with low impedance speakers and a very large room.

DACs do matter to me, though, although the Wolfsons & AKMs aren't that bad. Improving them does matter, though if it's only at the $900 mark that they upgrade the DACs, it's a hefty price jump if it's mostly for that. I also wonder about the promotion of "Burr-Brown" in there. I'm beginning to noticed that "Burr-Brown DACs" is becoming the maketing version for audiophiles of "use only Monster Cable for best performance" to non-audiophiles BB makes lots of DACs, not all of them are spectacular, and rarely do mfrs tell you WHICH BB's they're using. Just look at Squeezebox...they have "Burr-Brown DACs", but it's the mid-grade ones, amid other non-extreme hardware...the output is probably the same as if they used someone else's DACs. Heck my X-Fi has fairly decent Cirrus DACs, but the lousy op-amps kills the analog out (I don't care much, as I just toslink it out to the Onkyo anyway)

I use a Yamaha DV-C750 for the main source, and the X-Fi's digital outs & passthroughs as the secondary source (games, movies, sometimes music if I don't have the disc handy) and XM, yes XM through an Eton E1XM as the third. On the next receiver I'd obviously move the XM to the receiver.

For now I use the C750's DACs for it since I already had to wire it that way for SACD, but from the X-Fi and XM (despite its low quality), obviously it matters.

The only connectivity feature I wish I had (other than direct XM and HDMI which most of the newer models have) is analog out for digital inputs. It drives me crazy not being able to use my headphone amp with digital sources, though, admittedly the Onkyo's phone out is pretty close in sound to my Headroom amp)


Out of curiosity, is there any known reason why Audioholics "recommended" lists seem NEVER to list Onkyo anymore?



(And as a disclaimer on XM before people start flaming the thread, yes, even in an audiophile setup (not that my equipment is near to the price level of most audiophiles) , XM can have its place....not only for finding artists, etc, but it makes for great background music at a non-excellent quality so you can still truly appreciate the SACDs when you pop them in and not get immune to the awe of it from half-listening to it for hours and hours each day. The high quality is for sitting in a dark room and listening )