AVR Advice Needed :)

[oCandy]

Hi everybody,

[Short Story]
I am looking for a Super detailed audio AVR (like a gaming headset you hear every leaf drop down and every footstep) and still be good at movie and music audio which may cost around $2000,-(preferably 9.2 and lots of optical inputs).

[Detailed Story]
I've been searching the web for the past weeks trying to find a new A/V Reciever to replace my current NAD AV Amplifier 316.
However for what i am searching i have yet not found a satisfied awnser, so i was hoping one of you guys could give me some advice on my next AVR since im trying to make it a long investment.
So what i am trying to find is a gaming reciever ofcourse theirs no such thing but thats what i am trying to find.
Why do i want this i what this instead of a gaming headset.
My first intention was to buy a high detailed gaming headset so i went looking for one,
and found the astro a50 which i wanted to buy. When suddenly my Amplifier broke so now i had to buy a new one.
So i figered out why not buy both in one a AVR and speakers ofc.
So i went looking on the web for AVR's and i found 2 AVR's which i liked (according to the specs) the Denon AVR-X4000 and the Yamaha RX-A2020(or any other good aventage model). I liked both of them because they had 9.2 and the Yamaha has 4 optical inputs(which i really like and is a big point) and nice high output each speaker.
However specs won't tell the sound now won't they.
So here i am asking you guys which is the best AVR in super detailed audio like a gaming headset and still really good in music and movie audio in the price range up to $2000+- could be a little more or less.
Ofcourse i want music and movies to have amazing sounds aswel.

All of this is assuming i have the best possible speakers, cables, etc.
except for the AVR.

So i really hope someone could help me im dying to buy a new avr.

edit: just found out the denon avr-x4000 isn't 9.2 however if it has better audio than an 9.2 i would still want it does somebody have any experience?

 

[ARES24]

All of this is assuming i have the best possible speakers, cables, etc.
except for the AVR.

This is quite the assumption!

Short answer; Most AVR's have comparable sounds quality, beating yourself up over the avr isn't likely to gain you much. Pick an AVR that has the gadgets you are looking for. Receivers with the seemingly highest ratings; Denon and Marantz with Yamaha and Onkyo doing good as well.

With that kind of budget I would be looking at a decent AVR or a Pre/pro and getting seperate AMPS. Other then the speakers, I feel the amp makes the biggest difference.

 

[ImcLoud]

OK, first...
Welcome to AH, Im sure with the guys on here you will get some great info...

Now, 9.2? Do you know what that means? that is 9 speakers plus the .2 is 2 subwoofers... So take the pioneer sc 1523 avr for example{which would be my pick for an avr that is 9.2 and under $2000}, that unit is around $1500 because it has that huge channel count, almost the same avr in 7.1 {which is 7 speakers and 1 subwoofer} is half the price in the same series....
So you will need 2 subwoofers, entry level at $225 each and something decent will be around $1500 a pair depending on your room size, then a front sound stage which is your front 3 speakers front left and right with a matching center, entry level would be around $350{andrew jones pioneers} something decent will be around $1000 {ascend 340s}, then you will need 6 surround speakers entry level would be around $300, something nice will be around $900...
So you are looking at $5000 for a decent 1523 avr, ascend speakers, hsu dual drive subs, and all the cables you would need... That is no where near "the best" but its a really nice system, if you are looking for that type of system in a very high end you will triple that price with ease... I would personally go with 5.1, most movies are recorded in this, it is the way most material is supposed to be played... There are pleanty of really nice avrs out there for around $500 and personally the most I would spend on an AVR...

 

[shadyJ]

You can get a good AVR for $2k, but nothing really matches the detail you get from a good pair of headphones. The problem is room acoustics. Unless you heavily treat your room, just forget about headphone levels of detail. You also have to get rid of ambient noise sources which are often obstructed by headphones. That being said, I do prefer listening to my speakers as opposed to my headphones, and a good speaker system has a sense of realism headphones can't give you. This is because of soundstage.

Another thing, it sounds like you intend to connect your receiver through optical sp/dif and you want 9.2. Toslink can only carry 7.1, so don't worry about those extra channels. No data coming from your gaming system can fill those extra channels, they are basically created by the receiver, so they wouldn't give you any gaming advantage as far as spatial cues go.

If it were me, I would just get the Denon AVR-x4000

 

[oCandy]

This is quite the assumption!

Short answer; Most AVR's have comparable sounds quality, beating yourself up over the avr isn't likely to gain you much. Pick an AVR that has the gadgets you are looking for. Receivers with the seemingly highest ratings; Denon and Marantz with Yamaha and Onkyo doing good as well.

With that kind of budget I would be looking at a decent AVR or a Pre/pro and getting seperate AMPS. Other then the speakers, I feel the amp makes the biggest difference.

Hi ARES24,

I am assuming this because i only want to look for a AVR right now and buy speakers later on.
This assumption is showing the only bottleneck could be the AVR, and could make the sound better/worse.
So that i could focus on buying an as perfect as possible AVR for $2000,- and buy the Seperate AMPS and Speakers later.
This is because i am making it a long investment atleast 4/5years.

Thanks for the headsup i will be searching for the onkyo aswel than .

 

[oCandy]

OK, first...
Welcome to AH, Im sure with the guys on here you will get some great info...

Now, 9.2? Do you know what that means? that is 9 speakers plus the .2 is 2 subwoofers... So take the pioneer sc 1523 avr for example{which would be my pick for an avr that is 9.2 and under $2000}, that unit is around $1500 because it has that huge channel count, almost the same avr in 7.1 {which is 7 speakers and 1 subwoofer} is half the price in the same series....
So you will need 2 subwoofers, entry level at $225 each and something decent will be around $1500 a pair depending on your room size, then a front sound stage which is your front 3 speakers front left and right with a matching center, entry level would be around $350{andrew jones pioneers} something decent will be around $1000 {ascend 340s}, then you will need 6 surround speakers entry level would be around $300, something nice will be around $900...
So you are looking at $5000 for a decent 1523 avr, ascend speakers, hsu dual drive subs, and all the cables you would need... That is no where near "the best" but its a really nice system, if you are looking for that type of system in a very high end you will triple that price with ease... I would personally go with 5.1, most movies are recorded in this, it is the way most material is supposed to be played... There are pleanty of really nice avrs out there for around $500 and personally the most I would spend on an AVR...

Hi Imcloud,

I am not looking for the best Surround sound set because that would be indeed way to expensive just looking for a good one.
I'm not going to buy new speakers straight away i want to focus on buying the AVR first.
The reason i want 9.2 is because i want it to be a little bit of futher proof.
Lets say i bought a 5.1 and in a year or maybe 2 year the new standard would be 7.1.
Now with the 5.1 i would need to buy a new avr and a couple of speakers.
Now if i only had the 9.1/9.2 avr i would still have 2 speaker outputs left for an even newer standard a couple years later.
This all is because i want to make it a long invest ment atleast 5years.

My current amp is from 1995.

Anyway thanks for your reply and sharing your opinion

 

[oCandy]

Hi guys i cant seem to find how to edit the main post so i will post it here my current amps specs which will be replaced for a new AVR :

NAD AV316 AMP (1995)

Power output: 75 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)

Surround output: 50W (front), 50W (center), 15W (rear)

Frequency response: 5Hz to 50kHz

Total harmonic distortion: 0.08%

Damping factor: 60

Input sensitivity: 2.5mV (MM), 150mV (line)

Signal to noise ratio: 80dB (MM), 100dB (line)

Video Connections: composite

 

[oCandy]

You can get a good AVR for $2k, but nothing really matches the detail you get from a good pair of headphones. The problem is room acoustics. Unless you heavily treat your room, just forget about headphone levels of detail. You also have to get rid of ambient noise sources which are often obstructed by headphones. That being said, I do prefer listening to my speakers as opposed to my headphones, and a good speaker system has a sense of realism headphones can't give you. This is because of soundstage.

Another thing, it sounds like you intend to connect your receiver through optical sp/dif and you want 9.2. Toslink can only carry 7.1, so don't worry about those extra channels. No data coming from your gaming system can fill those extra channels, they are basically created by the receiver, so they wouldn't give you any gaming advantage as far as spatial cues go.

If it were me, I would just get the Denon AVR-x4000

Hi shadyJ,

First of all thanks for the reply.

I also was wondering if a home theather would match a gaming headset. You just clarified this for me another question awnsered .
Also i tend to play alot of splitscreen, and i still want to hear my mates and not have to buy 4 gaming headsets.
With a AVR system they would al hear nice sound and we would all be able to communicate.
And besides i like a surround sound much more when i use a headset i feel closed out and i often dont hear the doorbell and have angry people .

Also thanks for the information about the toslink i didnt knew it would only support up to 7.1.
Im fairly new to this so i dont know much but im researching.
Do you happen to know if any input supports up to 9.1/9.2.
Or if a optical input would support it later on like new hdmi cables supporting 4k.

 

[shadyJ]

Do you happen to know if any input supports up to 9.1/9.2.
Or if a optical input would support it later on like new hdmi cables supporting 4k.

No input that I know of supports 9.1 or 9.2. You won't find any software drivers or games that support 9.2 either, at the moment. Optical is not going to support 9.2 because it doesn't even carry uncompressed surround sound currently. I am fairly certain there are no plans to boost it up to 9.2. A future HDMI spec could possibly carry it at some point in the future, but any receiver you buy nowadays wouldn't be compatible with that.

I think in the future, you will end up seeing something resembling a dolby atmos spec, where the soundtrack won't be a bunch of discrete channels, instead it will be like a single audio environment much like how video game engines deal with sound. In this type of setup you could have almost as many speakers as you wanted, and each one would would be positionally calculated by the AVR to playback sound correct for that location. This won't be for awhile though.

One more thing, if you want better positional cues in a surround sound system, do not get bipole or dipole surround speakers, you know these as the kind where the woofers point in different directions. Get monopoles, where the woofers and tweeter are facing the same direction.

 

[oCandy]

No input that I know of supports 9.1 or 9.2. You won't find any software drivers or games that support 9.2 either, at the moment. Optical is not going to support 9.2 because it doesn't even carry uncompressed surround sound currently. I am fairly certain there are no plans to boost it up to 9.2. A future HDMI spec could possibly carry it at some point in the future, but any receiver you buy nowadays wouldn't be compatible with that.

I think in the future, you will end up seeing something resembling a dolby atmos spec, where the soundtrack won't be a bunch of discrete channels, instead it will be like a single audio environment much like how video game engines deal with sound. In this type of setup you could have almost as many speakers as you wanted, and each one would would be positionally calculated by the AVR to playback sound correct for that location. This won't be for awhile though.

One more thing, if you want better positional cues in a surround sound system, do not get bipole or dipole surround speakers, you know these as the kind where the woofers point in different directions. Get monopoles, where the woofers and tweeter are facing the same direction.

Thanks for the info.
Also may i ask why not to get bipole or dipole surround speakers and why to get monopole instead.

 

[shadyJ]

The reason why is bipole/dipoles shoot sound everywhere. By design, they deliberately give you an ambiguous soundstage, to try to sound spacious and blurry. Monopoles can give you more precise sound imagery. They can also have the kind of ambient sound if the soundtrack calls for it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would get the X4000 as well. The 4311 & 4520 will output more power, though. The 4311 can be had for $1225 if you call around and negotiate. Electronics Expo sold a few to members here for $1225 delivered even 6 months ago.

I really like the Dynamic EQ function of Audyssey XT/XT32.