AVFORUMS.COM Appalling Bias, Posting Policies, and Moderation

[AdrianMills]

Ok, I've been banned from avforums.com for replying to a post by a moderator – his post was totally inaccurate about a PM I sent him today. It seems that telling the truth there is equal to “insulting a moderator” which is the reason given for the ban. Yes, Ian J, I hope you read this forum and respond. Really. Pathetic.

Avforums has been driving me nuts of late anyway as the incredibly anal moderation there borders on fascism. Threads closed for deviating from the subject, posts edited and paragraphs removed because those parts "didn't answer the OP's original question", many posts deleted because they were "argumentative" (Duh, discussion forum ). I was even warned officially by the site owner for "aggressive posting" Seriously, I've been on the net for over 20 years, on the web since its birth, I contribute to a number of forums and administered one until recently - I know what "aggressive" posting is and that wasn't it. Enthusiastic maybe, but aggressive? Ha!

Even Ilkka's posts with URL's pointing to other forums where his sub tests are have been edited to remove the links! Links to this place seem to be ok of course because they advertise here! Or at least I think I've seen their ad on the banner up there.

Ha, and gawd help if you start criticizing specialist speaker cables or other snake oil merchandise as if it were a fact that it's all rubbish They don't like to upset their advertisers now do they.

That forum is a seriously pathetic place and at the rate they are going the people that actually know AV there will migrate to places like this and AVS leaving only the "please tell me which sub to buy" crowd.

Damn, I am angry at those seriously sad people.

Just to make sure it's clear, I'm talking about the British avforums.com NOT the US based avsforum.com

 

[Sheep]

Well,

Welcome to Audioholics! Please stick around!

SheepStar

 

[AdrianMills]

Well,

Welcome to Audioholics! Please stick around!

SheepStar

I've been lurking and learning from this place for a while. But thanks for the welcome anyway. It's without a doubt the best site on the web for factual AV info.

 

[gmichael]

Does it feel any better to have vented your steam?

Welcome. Hope you like your new home.

 

[AdrianMills]

Does it feel any better to have vented your steam?

Welcome. Hope you like your new home.

Thanks but I can't say I feel any better for the rant. What I would like is to rant back over there and respond to the misleading posts that the moderator that banned me has posted but of course I can't. And even if I could it would be edited or deleted immediately and I would be banned again.

I find it incredible that such a restrictive forum that cannot accept criticism has become so popular. Oh well, VHS won the wars too I suppose.

 

[Hi Ho]

I feel similar about AVS, though not quite as sour. AVS was the first A/V forum I joined. Before that it was all PC related. It was AVS that got me into building speakers and the people there helped me build a killer subwoofer, my first project. After that, things seemed to go down hill. I'd say probably 80% of my posts went completely unanswered. The majority of posters seemed hostile and unfriendly. Then I found Audioholics and have not looked back.

 

[AdrianMills]

I feel similar about AVS, though not quite as sour. AVS was the first A/V forum I joined. Before that it was all PC related. It was AVS that got me into building speakers and the people there helped me build a killer subwoofer, my first project. After that, things seemed to go down hill. I'd say probably 80% of my posts went completely unanswered. The majority of posters seemed hostile and unfriendly. Then I found Audioholics and have not looked back.

AVForums was the first I joined too and I'm not at all pissed with the members there even those that I think are idiots D). It's all down to the incredibly anal management there. Their obsessive insistence that everything stays on topic and gawd help you if anything shows the promise of getting a little heated.

IanJ one of the plonker moderators in question gave as one of his justifications for banning me that most of the posts that he'd had to delete over the past few months were from threads I'd participated in. I'd say it wasn't my fault that fundy audiophiles get overheated when faced with the truth. It's bizarre though - he admitted to deleting more posts in a month than I'd deleted in 3 years as a forum admin. And he didn't mention the thread closures.

 

[mike c]

Hi Ho might be talking about AVS forum ... and you AVForums

 

[Hi Ho]

Hahaha, I didn't know there was an AVForum. I was talking about AVSForum, not AVForum. Sounds like they're similar none the less.

 

[AdrianMills]

Hahaha, I didn't know there was an AVForum. I was talking about AVSForum, not AVForum. Sounds like they're similar none the less.

No I realized - I meant that avforums was the first av forum that I joined.

And I'm also a member of avsforums although I don't really contribute and I can assure you that avsforum is bliss compared to avforums - for instance most of the argumentative sub threads would have been closed before they'd got off the first page. It's a little annoying that there are a few people there that are worth reading otherwise I couldn't have cared less.

 

[Hi Ho]

I'd also like to add that I do still read AVS Forum occasionally. I just don't post there unless I have a question that doesn't get answered here. There is a lot of information on that site.

 

[cyberbri]

Yes, http://www.avforums.com/ is in the UK, and http://www.avsforum.com is in the US.

 

[BMXTRIX]

It always bugs me when moderators work with a heavy hand. I have my own forums which I run loose and free - and have for years. I also moderate the Projector Central forums (Big Screen Forums) which I do with a much heavier hand... But, even then, I welcome criticism, issues, links to deals, links to manufacturers, etc. I don't consider it the job of a moderator to shut down the voice and opinion of others. I consider it a moderators job to keep personal attacks from going on, and to (sometimes) nudge people towards a better attitude.

No need to ban people for disagreeing with me - as I have heard being done. No need to ban people for arguing the facts... or even close down a 'debate' about a topic that others may find interesting. I always try to chime in with my two cents - and follow those same rules.

Most of all, I think external links, even if they don't hit sponsor sites, as long as it isn't SPAM from someone making a profit, is an excellent resource for people who want to build TRUST in a site. Yeah, a sponsor may lose a sale or two, but they will GAIN more because others will continue to recommend that site down the road. Good will and word of mouth goes a long way to brining people to sites where they want solid information.

I really like this specific section - where it's a bit of a piss-and-moan section... and allowed to be so. Where it is moderated so others can attack someone elses ideas, and points of view - but can't attack the person. That's what I believe moderators are here for - and should be doing...

I think this site does it exceptionally well - and I definitely give them a hard time every now and then when I have an issue... But, never mean it as an attack against them. (see HD disc threads!) - Why? Because the open discussions - even in disagreement - make this site fully deserving of 100% praise, and other sites like AVSForum (both US/UK apparently) need to get a bit of a grip on their own attitudes at times.

Clint & all - keep up the great work and (IMO) the properly authoritative hand.

 

[AdrianMills]

"lots of stuff I agree with"

Yes, what he said.

It took a couple of days but I can look back and have a bit of a chuckle at my intense anger. I think it got my goat far more than it should have because I was summarily banned over some idiotic and obviously false claim and not even given a chance to respond. It's the first time I've been banned in all my years online too.

Oh well, when the ban is over assuming I'm allowed to edit my posts after so long I'll go in a remove the lot and then delete my user after that. I really do not want to contribute to a forum with such restrictive rules and asinine moderation policies.

 

[Tsunamii]

I like both place, my biggest gripe with AVS is the Comcast brownie hounds. Say anything even in the least bit negative about Comcast and people are all over you. This is only on one particular HD board but it was enough to turn me away. Even good products have their downsides, get over it.

 

[DellRay]

Sadly there are many forums like them. I too have been on the net forever and I belong to forums on many many topics. I did fairly well until I got my first tattoo and the kid who did it had no creative talent, I had to go home and draw the image myself and go back to have it done, then he scarred me up and over charged me for it.

I happened to be at a gathering at a friends house one night shortly after and one of the other guys there had a 68 Chevelle packed full of stuff on a flatbed trailer mounted to a Chevy HD pickup. We got to chatting, first about the Chevelle and then he said he had all his stuff packed up because he was leaving town, for good. Somehow later in the night the conversation got on the subject of tattoos and when I was telling him my story, I stuck a comment in there to the effect that I could have done it better myself and he told me he had some equipment in the trunk of the Chevelle he'd sell me for a hundred bucks. It was a power supply a machine and some various sundries, everything was in the box that was necessary to tattoo so I quickly handed him the Benjamin.

The next evening after the wife (ex now) headed to work and I got the boys to bed, I set up and tattooed my leg and it actually came out pretty damn good so I kept doing it. I found some suppliers online that sold to individuals home addresses as many of them will only sell stuff to shops, but I was able to continue for awhile until the machine started performing badly. I went online, to forums of course to find out how to get it running good again because even after fiddling around with it several times, it was apparent that it was beyond my knowledge. I read a lot as I always do before joining and posting and there always comes a point when I can't find an answer to something or otherwise need more info so I joined a couple of the ones that seemed to have the best information and least filler or worse, BS!

At first I was met with some decent feedback but it wasn't long before the internet tattoo police jumped down my throat calling me a scratcher and throwing all sorts of other insults and every horrible name they could conjure up, even after I made it perfectly clear that I hadn't nor did I have any intention of tattooing another human being. I was only tattooing myself and I had read up on the safety protocols and all kinds of other important info about the subject, most of which had absolutely no relevance to their attacks because I can only transfer anything I didn't and still don't have to myself. I have never had any sort of infection prior nor have I infected myself with any new infections because it's impossible! And beyond that, they had only assumed that I was tattooing at all because my questions were only regarding the function of the tattoo machine. That whole thing got way out of control over nothing because I never tattooed anyone else and I'm still just as healthy as I was before. Perhaps moreso because now I have some pretty cool ink that I can say that I did myself and it looks better than several of the ones I've had done at "professional" shops. The only reason I went to them was because I wanted ink in places that I'm unable to reach comfortably.

Anyway, that experience put me in a different mindset with forums in general because where before I was visiting them solely for information on particular subjects, after that I found myself analyzing the conversations and those participating in them and having to "watch what I say" based on that and it has only compounded since then.