AV receivers have no sub out in two channel mode?

[JJNab]

I noticed from Clint's fine review that the RX-V2500 has no sub out in CD pure direct mode. Is it generally true of AV receivers that you can't use your sub when you're in 2-channel stereo or pure direct? I'm also looking at the HK 635 and the Pioneer Elite 56txi, but I can't find the answer to this question in the specs for either one. The answer is pretty important for me because I listen to music more than I watch movies, and most of my music is plain old stereo CDs. I'd hate to not have my sub operational when listening to them!

Thanks for any guidance on this,

JJ

 

[zumbo]

In 2-channel mode, the sub is on. In direct stereo mode, it is off. Not a big deal. That is what direct stereo is for.

 

[rgriffin25]

My Pioneer Elite 53TX has uses the sub in both modes. (2ch /direct)

 

[johnu]

And the Denon 3805 has LFE out to the subwoofer. I was looking at the Yamaha and that was a deal breaker for me since I have bookshelves that need a subwoofer.

 

[Nomo]

If you want the subwoofer for two channel reproduction on the Yamaha you simply use the 2 channel stereo mode.

 

[zumbo]

johnu, the Yamaha has LFE out. I mean, come on guys.

 

[JJNab]

Thanks all for the responses. Anyone know if the HK 635 has sub out in both 2-ch and stereo direct?

Zumbo, I've been reading a lot of your posts recently, and I think they are helping the forum a lot. Sorry if you think this is a stupid thread.

JJ

 

[zumbo]

Not stupid at all. These are very good questions with very simple answers. As far as the Yamaha, it has an LFE out. It's functions are, 2-channel with sub (2-channel stereo), and 2-channel without sub (direct stereo). Oh, and (straight effect), which I believe turns the optimizer off or bypasses it.

 

[bray]

H/k 130

I have since updated to Denon2805 (which includes the sub in pure direct),and my old H/K 130 DID have an LFE and also INCLUDED the sub in pure direct. To be honest with you, I dont notice much of a differece if any between stereo, direct, or pure direct.
Just my 2 cents.
Hope this helps answer your ?

 

[JJNab]

Thanks, bray, that answers it.

 

[johnu]

johnu, the Yamaha has LFE out. I mean, come on guys.

So you are saying that the Yamaha has LFE out in Pure Direct which is what we were talking about?

 

[Nomo]

No. Pure direct or direct stereo on the Yamahas does not have LFE. No Sub output. To get a sub output in... lets call them, for lack of a better term, non-DSP modes you have these choices:

(1)Straight, which sends a signal to to sub but does not process or equalize the signal.

(2)2 channel stereo, which also sends a signal to the sub but passes it through the equalizer.

(3)7 channel stereo, this is the same as 2 channel except it send a signal to all 7 speakers (as well as the sub).
There are several other DSP settings besides these; Concert. Jazz club... etc. All of these also use LFE and add additional effects such as reverb.

It seems the definition of Pure Direct is not the same through out the industry.

 

[marius]

(1)Straight, which sends a signal to to sub but does not process or equalize the signal.

(2)2 channel stereo, which also sends a signal to the sub but passes it through the equalizer.

I've been doing some 2-channel music listening comparison between the two modes above. To me there's absolutely zero difference. Are you sure that it bypasses the equalizer for Straight mode? The manual says that it skips the "effects processing" so perhaps it's referring to DSP, IIx modes and such, but equalizer is applied to both modes? On the other hand there's a big difference between 2-channel and pure direct even with the sub turned off.

 

[Nomo]

I over simplified by taking what the manual calls processing and calling it equalization. But, it is my understanding, perhaps my assumption, that equalizing was also kept out of the mix as well. I'll do some testing of my own and get back to you. Hopefully not with an apology but if need be..........
I hate being wrong.

 

[zumbo]

Buy the Denon. Get some Bose while your at it. You guys can argue about nothing for days!

 

[vermintrex]

Buy the Denon. Get some Bose while your at it. You guys can argue about nothing for days!

I ,for one, have found the whole Pure Direct, Stereo Direct, Pure Stereo, 2-Ch Direct, 2-Ch Stereo, Straight, Straight Direct, DSP Pure Bypass Super Kung-Fu Direct or whatever other freakin term you want to use for it, and whether or not the sub or LFE (which are not the same thing) is being used very confusing. So I'm glad this topic came up.

If you find the questions brought up here entirely too simplistic or are becoming frustrated by our inability to immediately grasp the concept please feel free to find another thread to browse and leave us drooling trogledytes to sort it out amongst ourselves.

vermin

 

[HTAdict]

so I am still a little confused. Is there actually a noticable differance in signal purity and sound quality in the pure direct mode? (completely ignoring the fact that the sub is not on in pure direct)

 

[Nomo]

I listened to my 1500 last night in both 2 channel stereo and straight modes.
I intentionally skewed the EQ setting to make the switch back and forth more obvious. I really could not hear a difference! It appears is though the signal is running through EQ in both modes. Not what I anticipated at all based on what the manual says. To me this is not a big deal but it is odd that Yamaha would have such redundant functions. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.
As far as Pure direct mode; I listen to almost all 2 channel music using it. As with the 2 channel/straight comparision however I'm not sure if there is much difference from direct stereo mode. (another redundancy?). This difference is harder for my ears to detect however as there is a pretty good volume difference when switching between Direct & Pure Direct modes. The sound quality to me is far superior to any other choices on the reciever. I sure this can be atributed to my personal taste and the fact that my subwoofer and surrounds are well below par.