AV Receiver + external amp

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as1337

Audiophyte
I'm in the market for an AV Receiver to drive a mix of 4 ohm towers and 8 ohm surrounds. I'm going to need a decent amount of power if the speaker rating is anything to go by (80W - 200W). I want to make sure I have a good amount of headroom and not going to clip.

AV Receivers in my price range aren't really going to push 80 W in all channels at the same time, so it looks like I may have to hook up an Emotiva XPA-5.

Now, would it make sense to buy an AV Receiver and use it as a pre/pro? Of course Emotiva sells a pre/pro but it's too rich for my blood at $2,500. I was thinking of getting something like a mid-range Marantz and pairing it with the XPA-5.

Quality-wise, what am I losing over a dedicated pre/pro?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
The wattage rating on the speaker is nearly irrelevant. The size of your room, how far you sit from the speakers and how loud you listen will be a bigger factor in how much power you truly need. I'd recommend you start with an adequately powerful receiver and see how it goes rather than buying an amp before you know if you need one.
 
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as1337

Audiophyte
It makes sense but how do I know mine is "adequate" though. It sure can produce sound, but am I clipping and frying my tweeters over time? I always hear about how underdriving the speakers can f them up over time.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
What speakers are we talking about first of all, and how big of a room? If these are truly difficult to drive speakers, an amp may very well be the way to go. Until you have the gear, it isn't 100% easy to say it will or won't work, but we can guesstimate with some details.

Technically, tweeters are fried by too much power, but having insufficient output to properly create the waveform and thus causing the driver to heat up seems to be what triggers this effect IMO. You will know this quickly - if you turn it up and the volume does not seem to get louder and also becomes "muddy", as in you can hear the speaker struggle and no longer sounding clear, you've reached the point where damage may occur. This is clipping. That typically is not something that happens slowly.
 
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as1337

Audiophyte
Monitor Audio Silver 10 in a large room, I think around 17 ft x 45 ft.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Monitor Audio Silver 10 in a large room, I think around 17 ft x 45 ft.
If you sit within 10-12 ft from the speakers you will be fine with something like a Marantz SR7009 or Denon AVR-X4100W for under $1K. Otherwise, for the MA Silver 10 in a room that big, adding a 2 or 3 channel 300W amp would be a good idea.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
AV Receivers in my price range aren't really going to push 80 W in all channels at the same time, so it looks like I may have to hook up an Emotiva XPA-5.
For a movie with 5-channel sound, all channels will not require the same power. The center and rear channels will more likely draw just a few watts, leaving most of the power production capability for the left & right front speakers. And most of the time they also need no more than just a few watts. For music, I use only the left & right front speakers.

It makes sense to buy an AVR that allows future use as a pre/pro. Make sure it has the needed pre amp out put jacks. But before you run out and drop more cash on an external amp, try the AVR with your speakers. You may be pleasantly surprised.

If you later decide that you absolutely must get an external amp, look for a used 2-channel amp to drive the front left & right speakers, and use the AVR to drive the center and rear channels. There is little or no need to buy an external 5-channel amp. If you are patient, it is still possible to find good quality used 2-channel amps in the 150-200 wpc range for about $1 per watt.

Despite what you may have been led to believe, there are no sound quality differences between using an AVR as a pre/pro or a dedicated pre/pro. No one will come to your door demanding you turn in your audiophile membership card :rolleyes:.
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
The surrounds probably don't need more power than the receiver will put out so you can also consider an XPA-3 :)

That IS a pretty big room to fill + 4 Ohm mains, so we're at that unknown area where you may benefit from an amp and basically you'll probably want to give it a shot without the amp first. In my previous room I was 14x23 with 20' vaulted ceilings and all 4 Ohm speakers with a top tier Marantz, and I ended up needing an amp - but only for the front 3. The surrounds were fine off the receiver since they were the only things running off it.
 
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as1337

Audiophyte
Thanks for the replies. It's easy to get carried away when you surf the internet for answers. People seem to have such extreme views. I will be sitting on the sofa pretty close to the speakers/TV, so I don't know if the room size is truly a consideration.

My old amp supports none of the current sound/video standards. It has a good reputation as an audiophile amp first and foremost. Would the Marantz SR 6010 provide an equivalent listening experience in stereo and pair well with my speakers, as say, a NAD???
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I've heard Marantz with Monitor Audio and found it a good pairing. I haven't heard the current Marantz lineup, but if you're not going with the amp at first, I'd probably opt for a more powerful model. If you think you're going for the amp, get the one with the features you require.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Thanks for the replies. It's easy to get carried away when you surf the internet for answers. People seem to have such extreme views. I will be sitting on the sofa pretty close to the speakers/TV, so I don't know if the room size is truly a consideration.
The distance between the listener and the front three speakers is more important than the room size, but the total room size is not unimportant.
My old amp supports none of the current sound/video standards. It has a good reputation as an audiophile amp first and foremost. Would the Marantz SR 6010 provide an equivalent listening experience in stereo and pair well with my speakers, as say, a NAD???
Yes, I wouldn't worry about the differences, if any.

Does your TV, Blu Ray player have HDMI connection? You'll find it makes things simpler to connect.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I will be sitting on the sofa pretty close to the speakers/TV, so I don't know if the room size is truly a consideration.
For the speakers, the only thing that matters is how far you are from the speakers, not how big a room is. You could be outdoors.

I think something like the Denon X4100 would be great. Amazon will probably have their 50% off sale (of current models) in about 3-4 months when newer models are released.
 
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as1337

Audiophyte
When I said my old amps I meant my old AV Receiver of course... Anyway thanks for the replies.
 
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as1337

Audiophyte
What do you guys think of getting a Marantz SR 6010 and 2 Emotiva XPA-100 to power the fronts? That leaves the Marantz to power just the center and the 2 rears.

EDIT: I see some not so good reviews about Emotiva reliability so I'm not 100% sold on that.
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
For the speakers, the only thing that matters is how far you are from the speakers, not how big a room is. You could be outdoors.
A smaller room will have more room gain, while a larger one will not. While the distance away is more important, the total empty space is a factor. IMHO, a larger space is actually more desirable because fewer immediate reflections sounds better to my ears and requires fewer treatments and EQ.

What do you guys think of getting a Marantz SR 6010 and 2 Emotiva XPA-100 to power the fronts? That leaves the Marantz to power just the center and the 2 rears.

EDIT: I see some not so good reviews about Emotiva reliability so I'm not 100% sold on that.
I have had my XPA-3 for many years with no issues and have been very happy with my X-A100 also. My UMC-200 Pre/pro did have a problem that they fixed under warranty. IMO, you have less to worry about with their amps.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
A smaller room will have more room gain, while a larger one will not.
Yeah but room gain is mainly significant for only the bass region 20Hz-200Hz and much less significant above 200Hz.

So for subwoofers, the room size is a significant factor.
 
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