Audyssey killing my HT sound?

L

Leemix

Audioholic General
@lovinthehd has a running joke about manufacturers doing it on purpose to make people feel good about their speakers qualifying for "large"... lol.
Ye, it does feel wrong to set really big speakers to ‘small’, i wish they would just fix it, bass management yes/no for the speakers.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Samurai
I will add too, how you position your mic during setup makes a difference. The closer to the pattern you stay the better job it seems to do for me. I even tighten it up a little bit. I follow the pattern with a little less distance in between mic positions than 2 feet, ~18" to 20", ear height, and I use all 8 measurements.
In my room I get the best response when the mic positions are at most 30 cm from the first mic position.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
In my room I get the best response when the mic positions are at most 30 cm from the first mic position.
That's even tighter than I do, but I'll bet it works really well for mlp.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Samurai
That's even tighter than I do, but I'll bet it works really well for mlp.
It works well outside of MLP as well, while much wider positions not so much. I also have positions below and above MLP but fairly close.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
It works well outside of MLP as well, while much wider positions not so much. I also have positions below and above MLP but fairly close.
Yeah, you use a Trinnov setup right? That's like Audyssey on steroids, lol.

I would really like to check out some Genelec gear. Everything I've seen about it is pretty stellar.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Samurai
Yeah, you use a Trinnov setup right? That's like Audyssey on steroids, lol.

I would really like to check out some Genelec gear. Everything I've seen about it is pretty stellar.
I'm not sure what you mean by a Trinnov setup, but Trinnov is too expensive for me to buy, if that's what you mean.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
I'm not sure what you mean by a Trinnov setup, but Trinnov is too expensive for me to buy, if that's what you mean.
I must have you confused with someone else. I thought you had Trinnov gear for some reason.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic General
No, Audyssey doesn't suck the bass out. Read up on it and why personal preferences and hearing capabilities mean people want more bass after a calibration that level matches a system.
It's probably, due to movie watching and/or home theater content, they like hot bass. They want the room shaking, the walls vibrating, and cups falling on the floor after a big explosion in a movie.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Please do a fact check on this (about FIR filters) before posting, keep in mind that coming from you, lots of forum members may take it as facts.;)
A FIR filter only has linear phase if it has symmetrical coefficients. However there is still group delay, which you can see in the impulse response. This is analogous to fourth order crossovers in speakers. Sure they are linear phase, but the group delay is a whole cycle at the specified frequency. You can easily see that when you measure the impulse response.

Even of a FIR filter is a linear response filter group delay is still 1 cycle per tap. So the risk for significant time smear as processing is added is high.

In addition a you add circuits to the mix you inevitable add noise.

You can hear that easily on my rig. No Audyssey, then very slight noise just audible in a very quiet room at the seated position. Engage Audyssey and noise is easily discernible.

I suppose my case may not be typical, as the whole system measures really well, especially at the MLP. So the only thing that Audyssey could do is muck it up. However I remain astonished at how much it really mucks it up.

I guess I have to be grateful that turning it on is totally redundant.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
A FIR filter only has linear phase if it has symmetrical coefficients. However there is still group delay, which you can see in the impulse response. This is analogous to fourth order crossovers in speakers. Sure they are linear phase, but the group delay is a whole cycle at the specified frequency. You can easily see that when you measure the impulse response.

Even of a FIR filter is a linear response filter group delay is still 1 cycle per tap. So the risk for significant time smear as processing is added is high.

In addition a you add circuits to the mix you inevitable add noise.

You can hear that easily on my rig. No Audyssey, then very slight noise just audible in a very quiet room at the seated position. Engage Audyssey and noise is easily discernible.

I suppose my case may not be typical, as the whole system measures really well, especially at the MLP. So the only thing that Audyssey could do is muck it up. However I remain astonished at how much it really mucks it up.

I guess I have to be grateful that turning it on is totally redundant.
Taken from Floyd Toole's book entitled "Sound Reproduction 3rd Edition" :

"Many investigators over many years attempted to determine whether phase shift mattered to sound quality. In every case it has been shown that, if it is audible, it is a subtle effect, most easily heard through headphones or in an anechoic chamber, using carefully chosen or contrived signals.

There is quite general agreement that with music, reproduced through loudspeakers in normally reflective rooms, phase shift is substantially or completely inaudible. When it has been audible as a difference, when it is switched in and out, it is not clear that listeners had a preference.

Others looked at the audibility of group delay. They found that the detection threshold is in the range of 1.6 to 2 ms, and more in reflective spaces.These numbers are not exceeded by normal domestic and monitor loudspeakers.

Lipschitz et al. (1982) conclude: “All of the effects described can reasonably be classified as subtle. We are not, in our present state of knowledge, advocating that phase linear transducers are a requirement for high-quality sound reproduction.” Greenfield and Hawksford (1990) observe that phase effects in rooms are “very subtle effects indeed,” and seem mostly to be spatial rather than timbral. As to whether phase corrections are needed, without a phase correct recording process, any listener opinions are of personal preference, not the recognition of “accurate” reproduction."

IMO, phase shift at low frequencies is another matter. Multiple loudspeaker drivers in the same cabinet have to be positioned to allow a coherent phase response.
 
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