Audioholics 2021 Product of Year Award Winners!

Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic General
I don't need an hour consultation, was hoping he might be able to shed some advice on the speaker. Wasn't aware there was a consultation service even available, but sadly I'm not going to pay $150 for a consultation.

Otherwise I'll just ask other members for their advice. I didn't know Genes advice came at a price, at least not when I used to post around here, but anyways.
Just a suggestion, when you go to see your Doctor, would your Doctor see you for free? Well Gene is a professional engineer, it's business think of it as a in-house call. Sometimes Gene will throw out some crumbs like with that dude above who asked Gene when he was going to post up his test results on the RX-A6A. Remember there is only One qualified expert on this site. Just happens to be the owner of AH, Gene DellaSala. All others would be just subjective opinions.
 
G

Golfx

Audioholic
Using one of the Audioholics reviewers or Gene himself is a great way of avoiding costly mistakes. They have, and hear, a constant presentation of new products. We hear only a tiny fraction of what they hear, and our biases cloud many of our purchase decisions. I use Matthew Poes but would not hesitate to use Gene or James.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic General
Using one of the Audioholics reviewers or Gene himself is a great way of avoiding costly mistakes. They have, and hear, a constant presentation of new products. We hear only a tiny fraction of what they hear, and our biases cloud many of our purchase decisions. I use Matthew Poes but would not hesitate to use Gene or James.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
What about Hugo, He doesn't count? :D Inbox James, most definitely.
 
G

Goliath

Full Audioholic
Just a suggestion, when you go to see your Doctor, would your Doctor see you for free? Well Gene is a professional engineer, it's business think of it as a in-house call. Sometimes Gene will throw out some crumbs like with that dude above who asked Gene when he was going to post up his test results on the RX-A6A. Remember there is only One qualified expert on this site. Just happens to be the owner of AH, Gene DellaSala. All others would be just subjective opinions.
It's really NOT the same thing and I don't appreciate you patronising me. I'm not asking for an acoustic analysis of my room, or for room design, or some kind of turn-key solution.

Asking if one speaker is more accurate or has a more neutral response shouldn't cost someone $150 so your analogy above is false. Not to disrespect Gene at all, I've always valued his advice and input on the forum, but he isn't the only qualified expert around and there are other experts in their field who will gladly help answering this kind of question without demanding a $150 fee!

It's honestly ridiculous and it boggles the mind that you can't see this. Anyways, fine, I'll go somewhere else then.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic General
It's really NOT the same thing and I don't appreciate you patronising me. I'm not asking for an acoustic analysis of my room, or for room design, or some kind of turn-key solution.

Asking if one speaker is more accurate or has a more neutral response shouldn't cost someone $150 so your analogy above is false. Not to disrespect Gene at all, I've always valued his advice and input on the forum, but he isn't the only qualified expert around and there are other experts in their field who will gladly help answering this kind of question without demanding a $150 fee!

It's honestly ridiculous and it boggles the mind that you can't see this. Anyways, fine, I'll go somewhere else then.
In a word, it was just a (suggestion). I believe your reading into something on my post that isn't there. And your post is like what? :rolleyes: You seem to already have the speakers from the same company. Why wouldn't you trust your own research? You seem to have been in this hobby for quite some time. Trust in your own research. But I don't appreciate you making it a personal attack when I was just trying to help you broski cheese slice! You need a hug? :D Cheers!
 
G

Goliath

Full Audioholic
In a word, it was just a (suggestion). I believe your reading into something on my post that isn't there. And your post is like what? You seem to already have the speakers from the same company. Why wouldn't you trust your own research? You seem to have been in this hobby for quite some time. Trust in your own research. But I don't appreciate you making it a personal attack when I was just trying to help you broski cheese slice! You need a hug? :D Cheers!
Your suggestion wasn't helpful. If I trusted my own opinions then I would never need to consult with anyone other than myself. Had I known in advance that I would need to pay $150 to get an answer to my question I wouldn't have bothered asking it in the first place.

I didn't know asking a technical question would result in so much drama. Anyways, that's it from me, I'll go somewhere else thank you.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic General
Your suggestion wasn't helpful. If I trusted my own opinions then I would never need to consult with anyone other than myself. Had I known in advance that I would need to pay $150 to get an answer to my question I wouldn't have bothered asking it in the first place.

I didn't know asking a technical question would result in so much drama. Anyways, that's it from me, I'll go somewhere else thank you.
What the hell dude, your making a mountain out of a molehill. Audio is a very subjective subject.
Your just looking to argue on the internet seems to be anyways. Take what you want and leave the rest it's just a suggestion get it. I gave you a good suggestion. Then I give you a added suggestion to shoot, Shady J (James) a inbox message. But I see now by your post that you already knew who to go to for suggestions, with the two other's you posted up. If your looking for a Pissing contest, many on AH will accommodate you but I won't. I personally only trust one on AH and that is Gene. Your post was directed at Gene that's why I suggested to give him a call for a consultation. Happy hunting on finding the truth in audio.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
As I asked over at ASR, I wonder if there is any planned liitigation against Panasonic by the AVR companies for not delivering proper functioning HDMI cards. I also wonder what steps the AVR companies will take to prevent something like this from happening again. After all, its the AVR manufacturers being called to task by ALL the forums and their members but Panasonic seems to be the root of these problems.

Gene, as far as poor measurements go on the Yamahas, is it simply poor implementation of good quality components or are the components themselves of poor quality?
On the inconsistent SINAD part, logic would indicate it had more to do with implementation.
 
AVR Enthu

AVR Enthu

Full Audioholic
Also many people are waiting for the 3rd generation of HDMI 2.1 chips.
Late Q4 2022 or H1 2023 the earliest for the third gen. Current 2nd gen 40 Gbps chips work mostly ok, with a few software glitches to be ironed out. 48 Gbps chips will be a longer wait.
 
AVR Enthu

AVR Enthu

Full Audioholic
I continue to stand by by position that none of these companies should be supported until they get their tech working properly.
The public has allowed vendors to release and sell not fully functional devices, which were not tested properly with sources. This creates all kinds of problems. For example, reviewers are in a dark as to how to review something that does not work fully, let alone recommend it. It was ridiculous and still is. As soon as consumers continue to buy those machine in that state, vendors will not stop doing it. Consumer market is exploited, as there are always users willing to experiment and take risks.
 
AVR Enthu

AVR Enthu

Full Audioholic
Well even if Yamaha can make the suggested improvements on future RXA8B or RXA8C models, that’s still worth Gene’s hard work.
We definitely need more people like @gene in AV review space, as this would bring more wide spread communication, knowledge about devices, their properties, reliability, marketing gimmicks, etc.
 
AVR Enthu

AVR Enthu

Full Audioholic
I wonder if there is any planned liitigation against Panasonic by the AVR companies for not delivering proper functioning HDMI cards. I also wonder what steps the AVR companies will take to prevent something like this from happening again. After all, its the AVR manufacturers being called to task by ALL the forums and their members but Panasonic seems to be the root of these problems.
It's not Panasonic, it's Panasonic Solutions, a completely different company. Litigation is not clear and it is unlikely that they are responsible. They developed two chips in 2019, one 24 Gbps with three input ports (Yamaha) and another one 40 Gbps, with one input port (SU's choice). It is engineers from AVR vendors that need to know what is it exactly that they are looking for when ordering a chip.

For example, if you say to chip vendor that you want a chip with several speedy inputs and your AVR to work with consoles at 4K/120Hz 10-bit signal, they can tell you that they either have or have not a solution. The vendor had 24 Gbps chip and sent it, as it does support stated features. But if you do not ask them about additional features that chip might need to have to work fully with consoles, such as RGB colours, chroma 4:4:4 etc, all of which requires 40 Gbps speed in total, then the chip vendor will send you what you asked for only, because you did not ask for anything more. It's a complex story. In addition, people in Yamaha might have thought that 24 Gbps for 2020 models was not enough and asked the vendor whether their chip supports DSC, to compress signals up to 3.75:1 ratio, so that wider bandwidth signal from sources and displays is supported. The chip vendor might have said: "Yes, we have that feature too". "Ok, send us, we are covered then". No one in Yamaha asked the question whether 4K TVs actually support DSC protocol, vast majority of which do not. Bam! Black screen. DSC is a hardware feature and cannot be added by firmware. The fiasco from last year begs a question about engineers' knowledge of consumer electronics market, features implemented on TVs' SoC etc. It's hard to resist not to feel the word incompetence in the air.

Here is one analysis of this problem. Curiously, after this damning video, he never went back to this topic.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Ninja
Gene, I enjoyed the read, thanks !

yes, those Arendal speakers look like real gems !
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
It's not Panasonic, it's Panasonic Solutions, a completely different company. Litigation is not clear and it is unlikely that they are responsible. They developed two chips in 2019, one 24 Gbps with three input ports (Yamaha) and another one 40 Gbps, with one input port (SU's choice). It is engineers from AVR vendors that need to know what is it exactly that they are looking for when ordering a chip.

For example, if you say to chip vendor that you want a chip with several speedy inputs and your AVR to work with consoles at 4K/120Hz 10-bit signal, they can tell you that they either have or have not a solution. The vendor had 24 Gbps chip and sent it, as it does support stated features. But if you do not ask them about additional features that chip might need to have to work fully with consoles, such as RGB colours, chroma 4:4:4 etc, all of which requires 40 Gbps speed in total, then the chip vendor will send you what you asked for only, because you did not ask for anything more. It's a complex story. In addition, people in Yamaha might have thought that 24 Gbps for 2020 models was not enough and asked the vendor whether their chip supports DSC, to compress signals up to 3.75:1 ratio, so that wider bandwidth signal from sources and displays is supported. The chip vendor might have said: "Yes, we have that feature too". "Ok, send us, we are covered then". No one in Yamaha asked the question whether 4K TVs actually support DSC protocol, vast majority of which do not. Bam! Black screen. DSC is a hardware feature and cannot be added by firmware. The fiasco from last year begs a question about engineers' knowledge of consumer electronics market, features implemented on TVs' SoC etc. It's hard to resist not to feel the word incompetence in the air.

Here is one analysis of this problem. Curiously, after this damning video, he never went back to this topic.
Good info. I just wish the industry would have given Xbox and PS5 one hdmi2.1 port to run to the TV and one hdmi 2.0 port to run to the AVR. That would also have helped out gamers so they could keep their older AVRs during this time of transition to HDMI 2.1. It’s bad enough to fork over the cash for the console and the TV. But to also buy an AVR gets expensive…
 
AVR Enthu

AVR Enthu

Full Audioholic
Good info. I just wish the industry would have given Xbox and PS5 one hdmi2.1 port to run to the TV and one hdmi 2.0 port to run to the AVR. That would also have helped out gamers so they could keep their older AVRs during this time of transition to HDMI 2.1. It’s bad enough to fork over the cash for the console and the TV. But to also buy an AVR gets expensive…
True. Consoles are not without their own sins in terms of connectivity. They could have easily given another HDMI port or at least DisplayPort, so that users can combine with whatever gear they have at home. As consoles were exclusively designed for consumer electronics market, hence one port. Lazy solution.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
True. Consoles are not without their own sins in terms of connectivity. They could have easily given another HDMI port or at least DisplayPort, so that users can combine with whatever gear they have at home. As consoles were exclusively designed for consumer electronics market, hence one port. Lazy solution.
Ya if either Xbox or PS5 had been smart enough to have included 2 hdmi ports, then I’m sure Gene would have awarded them product of the year. :)
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Hi Gene

I need your advice. I read your review on the Paradigm Premiere series. They seem to offer a lot of bang for your buck.

I have the Paradigm Studio 20 v5 with a massive CC690 v5 center and Dipole surrounds. I'm using 2 SVS PB1000 Pros currently.

Would the Premiere 800 series be an upgrade over what i have now? Obviously the Studio line of speakers were discontinued about 4-5 years or would the Premiers by more of a sideways move?

Not sure if you have experience with the Paradigm Studios or not. Looking forward to your response. Keep up.the great work!
I had the equivalent inwall model of the Studio 20 V5 in the guest room of my old place. They were incredibly well crafted with excellent build quality. I did find them a bit bright. In comparison, the 800F are the most tonally neutral speakers I've ever heard from Paradigm. To answer your question, I'd probably sell the Studio 20s, and get the 800Fs. If you want to remove all reasonable doubt about the upgrade, then get the Founder LCRs and you'll likely have no regrets or buyer's remorse after.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
As I asked over at ASR, I wonder if there is any planned liitigation against Panasonic by the AVR companies for not delivering proper functioning HDMI cards. I also wonder what steps the AVR companies will take to prevent something like this from happening again. After all, its the AVR manufacturers being called to task by ALL the forums and their members but Panasonic seems to be the root of these problems.

Gene, as far as poor measurements go on the Yamahas, is it simply poor implementation of good quality components or are the components themselves of poor quality?
I think the build quality and parts used on the Yamaha are mostly top notch. I just think its a combination of bad software development and perhaps not properly vetting the design before releasing. The did use lower grade dacs on some of the channels and perhaps they also used different VC ICs on those channels causing some of these issues.
 

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