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billvyho

Audiophyte
Hi I'm new to the forum.

I ran a pair of 14 awg cables, about 60', from my garage to patio, to connect to zone 2 on my receiver. The amp on my patio is a simple one with rca imputs and 2-speaker output. I buried the cable along the side of the house. Everything works, but I have a buzzing sound that increases/decreases as I turn the volume up/down. The buzz is there whether or not I have the other end plugged into the receiver.

The only thing I can think of is that the cable crosses the main power line entering my house. I can relocate it so that it comes out of the house in a different place and doesnt cross the line, but wasnt sure if that is the problem or not.

I appreciate any suggestions. Thanks!
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
That's an awfully long run for a (presumably unbalanced) line-level signal. Since the buzz is volume dependant, and assuming nothing is wrong with the amp, it's amplifying crap that has been picked up along the way. Low level signals are more susceptible to this, particularly over long runs.

It seems to me that the wire you ran would be better utilized carrying an amplified signal, which is far more immune to such noise problems. Have you considered placing your zone two amp inside near the AVR, using short interconnects, and sending the amplified signal via your newly installed wire?
 
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billvyho

Audiophyte
Thanks for the reply. I assumed it would be cleaner running the line signal the long length. The main reasons for having it outside is volume control, and it also has an aux input I can use for a computer or mp3 player. This was the first time I used the zone 2 on the receiver, but I get the buzz even if its not plugged in to the receiver.

Would "balanced" make a difference? If so, please explain "balanced".
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
Thanks for the reply. I assumed it would be cleaner running the line signal the long length. The main reasons for having it outside is volume control, and it also has an aux input I can use for a computer or mp3 player. This was the first time I used the zone 2 on the receiver, but I get the buzz even if its not plugged in to the receiver.

Would "balanced" make a difference? If so, please explain "balanced".
http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/balanced-vs-unbalanced-interconnects

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/balanced-vs-unbalanced-interconnects/balanced-vs-unbalanced-interconnects-page-2

Those are kind of technical, but in a nutshell, balanced interconnects can send very tiny signals over long wire runs without noise; unbalanced (your standard issue, two strand rca cable, and even using 14g wire as you have done) can't. I highly doubt your equipment supports it anyway, it's usually on high dollar consumer gear only, but ubiquitous in pro-audio. Fortunately, you've run wire which should be perfectly adequate carrying an amplified signal, which is why I suggested moving the zone two amp inside.

I had a funny feeling you wanted volume control or other convenience. Maybe some sort of relay remote for the AVR?
 
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sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Your best bet is to move the amp inside and use some sort of remote. The second option is to replace the 14ga speaker wire with a pair of coax subwoofer cables. Monoprice may have something but I'd check with Blue Jeans for outdoor rated cables.
 
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billvyho

Audiophyte
I was thinking back to when I used to help run sound for some bands in local clubs, and the power amps and speakers were on stage, while the original sound ran from the stage to the board and back to the power amps. I guess microphones are balanced?

Thanks again for the replies. I'll look at moving the amp inside.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
You've got it figured out, but I'm just in agreement with the others. Unless you got shielded audio wire, you more likely ran 14 gauge speaker wire. Speaker wire is for taking amplified power to a speaker - speaker level. If you ran shielded audio cable, you could potentially make the distance without audio issues and picking up noise, but it still would be a crap shoot.

You really want to bring the amp inside, and perhaps just put a volume control outside at the speaker. There are outdoor rated volume controls available and this is common practice with typical entry level outdoor setups.

Other options include RF remotes (goes through walls!), IR repeaters, iPod controllable products, etc.

Either way, you do want that amp inside close to the source.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
In theory, 60' is farther than a high impedance signal should be sent over simple shielded cable without some kind of help but in practice, it often works very well. However, burying cable that's not made for direct burial (as in, buried in the soil without some kind of conduit or other protection) isn't a good idea if you want it to last for any length of time and this applies to coax, shielded audio cable, Cat5e or speaker wire. Speaker wire, specifically, can be infiltrated with moisture and if it causes any connection to the outside of the insulation, your amp won't be long for this world.

You called the noise 'buzzing'- does it change when you turn the lights off in the garage? Often, florescent lights will cause buzzing in audio equipment when shielding is inadequate or, in the case of using non-shielded wire for carrying audio signal to an amplifier, non-existent.

If possible, lay conduit in the ground and run your cabling through that to go from the garage to the patio for sending the audio signal. Whether you use shielded audio cable or Cat5e is up to you but either will work well. I have a run of Cat5e going from my receiver's Zone 2 output to both my basement receiver and my garage receiver and there's no apparent loss of fidelity and neither system has any hum or buzzing. The source end has a 3.5mm keystone insert that receives the plug from an RCA-Y cord and the other ends have RCA plugs soldered onto the wire. Mine is running through metal conduit.
 
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billvyho

Audiophyte
The cable I ran is direct burial for outdoor use, but it is non-shielded. I havent tested it with the lights on/off. My receiver has a powered zone 2 (speaker output) as well. Would it be ok to run from that, to the amp on the patio, then to speakers, so that I'll still have some volume control?

Thanks for the other options.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The cable I ran is direct burial for outdoor use, but it is non-shielded. I havent tested it with the lights on/off. My receiver has a powered zone 2 (speaker output) as well. Would it be ok to run from that, to the amp on the patio, then to speakers, so that I'll still have some volume control?

Thanks for the other options.
No, you don't want to go from speaker out to pre-amp in without some kind of level and impedance matching device.

To be honest, direct burial Cat5e is too much of a PITA to deal with because they inject silicone into the jacket and that makes working with the ends and termination difficult. If you can run new cable, lay some PVC conduit and make sure the joints are sealed well, then use regular Cat5e. If you want, use a pair of AV baluns, making sure they're true baluns (some aren't) and you shouldn't have any issues with ground loops. The bonus from using these is that you'll be able to send a video feed if you want. If signal loss becomes a problem (and it shouldn't, at that distance), you can use a CE Labs distribution amp (the cheapest one will work fine) and if the cable itself fails later, you can easily pull a new one because it'll be in conduit.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
The cable I ran is direct burial for outdoor use, but it is non-shielded. I havent tested it with the lights on/off. My receiver has a powered zone 2 (speaker output) as well. Would it be ok to run from that, to the amp on the patio, then to speakers, so that I'll still have some volume control?
No, but you can run it from that to an outdoor volume control and control the volume that way. Set your powered zone 2 to 0db and use the volume control to adjust volume.

As I said in my prior post, this is the proper, typical, and cheapest way to do this.

If you haven't - check out: http://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com for some outdoor rated audio gear.
 
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