Audio Advice - InLine Equalizer? Speakers don't sound quite right.

[robertkjr3d]

My front left and right channels are a bit hodge podge. I picked the cases with broken speakers in them off the street. The cases are nice Studio Monitors. Discovered after picking them up with no surprise that the woofers and midranges did not work. The tweeter horns did. One had a blown crossover as well. I found this idiot online that was selling the 8-ohm woofers that actually go with these speakers as car-audio subs cheap. That worked brilliantly. Next I picked up some cernwin-vega 3-way crossovers online to atleast replace the one bad one. I did this... I have yet to replace the working one. Next I ripped out some KLH speakers 4-inch woofer, and put those as the midranges on these Studio Monitors.

Now they seem to work good. When playing something in Dolby 5.1 it's amazing sound... better than IMAX I say. However if I just use the front-monitors when playing music, it still doesn't sound quite right.

Here's the problem. My receiver doesn't have a Main Pre-Out.. even though it does have DTS. All it has is digital controls for Bass and Treble. I do have a graphic equalizer that is not used. I think I need to tweak the sound going out to the front channels just a bit... but more tweaking than I can do with Bass and Treble. I need to raise the midrange a bit I think. Like I said it doesn't sound quite right.

Now the first solution here that can be proposed is to take the source sound and run that into the equalizer.... However I don't want to adjust the source... I just want to adjust the front L and R channels.

I can't seem to find anything that adjust on bands in-line that takes speaker wires in... and then out to the speaker.

The next solution that will be proposed is... Buy a new and better receiver.

However I can't do that because my wife would find out...LOL

The next solution is... to dump the junk speakers. Well if your in my living room, you'd say they were not junk! They just need a little tweaking.

Perhaps I need to open my receiver and create a pre-out?
Perhaps I can tweak something on the crossovers themselves?

 

[OttoMatic]

There is no EQ that I know of that will take a speaker level input.

I would recommend getting new speakers.

"Creating" a pre-out is a tricky situation. I would not go that route.

Similarly, you could play with crossover values forever, and not get what you want. Since it sounds like you have replaced broken drivers with other miscellaneous drivers, the crossovers that were in the box are very likely to be way off -- who knows what the parameters of the original drivers were, or what the parameters of your new drivers are?

Dump the speakers.

 

[Kolia]

An audiophil friend once told me this:

"There's a guy somewhere who has been paid good money to tweak and adjust the sound on your CD. Don't think you can out do him..."

Fix/change your speakers...

 

[markw]

I agree with the others.

You can't just throw random stuff in a box and expect good results.

A speaker system is (should be) a balance of the enclosure, the drivers, and the crossover. Each is carefully considered in the design stage to achieve optimum results.

HT is a lot less critical than music. That's why it sounds "ok" for that but find it lacks on music.

Check out new speakers.

 

[robertkjr3d]

I'm hearing ya... I suppose what I should do is flip my system. My rear-channels are Pioneer 3-way with 10-inch woofers. They were my original front channels. Perhaps I should put those back in front, and the hodge-podge ones in back.

 

[AVRat]

That makes more sense.

 

[robertkjr3d]

Ok I know I'm violating some sort of code.

But I really wanna save these guys. Can we not all build speakers that can sound good/professional with enough knowledge and the right equipment?

I hear even the original crossover in these babies suck... or unknown. I've yet to tell you guys what brand they claim to be, because I know I'll receive flack.

So what if I spent $100 on these crossovers for the speakers. The frequencies appear to be correct and the power handling.

It won't let me post a link so see this link that you'll have to piece together.
www realproaudio com
/product_info.php/products_id/911

 

[Kolia]

No offense but if your DIY speakers need an inline equilizer to sound right, something is wrong with them...

 

[robertkjr3d]

Umm that's what the crossover is for... I've learned a lot about speakers in the last couple of days. I realize that the hodge-podge crossover is the part that is making them sound crappy. Perhaps the mid-ranges that I stuck in the cabinets might suck too.

You audiphyleites... Is that crossover good in the link above to purchase?

Or should I get something cheaper off of ebay... what to look for in a crossover?

 

[OttoMatic]

It's not trivial to implement a crossover. To do it right takes a lot of research, work and understanding. An EE degree also won't hurt.

Just go for new speakers, or spend some time reading the DIY forums and whatever loudspeaker design books that are recommended.

 

[robertkjr3d]

It's not that simple. I'll alienate my wife by buying a new set of speakers.

Also you said you know of no in-line equalizer. Now in my couple of days of studying this stuff. Isn't an Active/electronic crossover actually what I was asking about? Not that I want one now.

Also no comments about crossovers... only that they are tricky. That I should just buy new. Where is the work involved in that. I'm willing to do the research as you suggested.

 

[robertkjr3d]

Also based on the research I've done in the last few hours. I believe I don't want the one above, that I linked, but rather the 5Khz model perhaps. That way my Horn tweeters will kept at a higher frequency. What's happening right now with the crossover I replaced already is that too much of the voice is getting into the tweeter and not enough in the midrange. The highpass frequency is set too low. Also this is contributing to what I said originally about the midrange being cut out out of sound field.

 

[robertkjr3d]

I take back what I said about active/electronic crossovers. They are kinda what I was talk about, but they are pre-amp not after amp like I was asking about.

I must dissagree with the concept that building your own speaker/crossover is too tricky and should not be attempted.

How many websites/audiophiles insist on buying a high-end set of speakers, and then ripping out the crossover because they know they can put one in that is better? They stress that you might have top of the line stuff on the outside, but crap inside... and they stress that it is the crossover that carries the strength of a speaker.

I did end up purchasing a new set of crossovers, for over $90. This one was a 500/4000K crossover. Should be about what I want. The tweeter is above voice range, and the woofer can handle easily up to 500.

Am I taking a gamble? Maybe... but this stuff is fun for me. Do I need an EE degree? What about all these audiophyles that insist that we all should build our own crossovers? That it is simple. However I didn't build my own... I purchased them. The Tweeters and Woofers are original parts for these speakers. Yes my midranges are still a hodge podge part of the set... but they still may work. After I get the new crossovers inside I'll determine whether I still need to seek replacement midrange speakers.

I was seeking advice on this site... Advice said back to me... get rid of them, and buy new. That's a bit like... your marriage has issues, divorce her and marry again. I'm stuck with these things... help me to fix them is what I was asking.

BTW... I bought these:
www partsexpress com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=260-152

 

[markw]

Now, whoever said this?

I must dissagree with the concept that building your own speaker/crossover is too tricky and should not be attempted.

Re-read this thread carefully and then tell me that this is what you get out of it.

This site works best if one listens with an open mind to the answers received. If one comes here for affirmation of a poorly executed plan, well, that's pretty much a guarantee of disappointment and perhaps frustration.

But, good luck in your endeavour here. While you're at it, you might consider some items from this page.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&CAT_ID=40&ObjectGroup_ID=72

BTW, your link doesn't work. Neither can I access "www.realaudiopro.com".

 

[Kolia]

I don't think people here are against DIY speakers. I think your initial question wasn't put right.

Initially, you didn't ask about building/fixing speakers. You asked about getting an equalizer to compensate for a poorly put together speaker... Reading your post, it sounded like you basically found some components in a trash bin and screwed them together with two different crossover for each box...

When it was suggested to get better components, you replied that you didn't want to change anything to the speakers, just adjust the input signal...

Don't be surprised of the type of replies you got after that!


Edit:By the way. This forum has the most well behaved people I've found everywhere in many discussion forums. Go spend some time on an automotive forum. You'll quickly appreciate how helpful peoples are here!

 

[OttoMatic]

Hi robertkjr3d,

I'm sorry if I offended you, but I generally stand by my previous comments. I don't mean to discourage you, and I'm definitely NOT against DIY. I'd still suggest that if you have different speakers in each box that you will get different results from each box, even if the crossovers are the same.

If we refactor your situation, we might be able to find a different and compromising path. For that $90, you could get pretty close to some rather nice bookshelf speakers. I think the Infinity Primus will fall in that range, and for <$200 you can get many, many nice bookshelf speakers from PSB, Paradigm, probably B&W, etc. That will take care of most of your problems with imaging, and overall sound quality. I know you said it's not easy to get new speakers (wife, I understand), but it's just a suggestion. And I do believe you could to it for relatively the same price you've already paid for the crossovers alone, if it's a budget thing.

Then, we can keep the DIY angle going, since you are interested in that. Since I recommended bookshelves, you'd need something to fill in the low end. You could take whatever drivers you have in your current boxes, and make them into a sub of sorts. I believe that a DIY sub is much, much easier to implement than a full-range speaker. Since it's easier, your probability of success will be much higher, and therefore your satisfaction will be higher. You could build a cool box, use passive or active crossovers, and learn a lot in the process.

Anyway, just some suggestions.

 

[robertkjr3d]

I agree the post has changed... My questions have changed... and perhaps I should have started a new thread.

Of course my link doesn't work... the site doesn't let me post links. Even if I wrote the link out without 'url' line. It'll put the url tags on it, and it'll yell at me and not let it post. They say I don't have access as of yet to post a link.

So to get around this issue... I posted the link without the '.'s in the webline. Put it together and you can get the link to work.

That is www . partsexpress . com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=260-152

Take out the spaces from above and paste into a browser.

--Listen to the advice--... All I've gotten for advice is ... trash and buy new. I'm telling you that is not an option!

 

[robertkjr3d]

to Otto...

I think you misunderstood. I don't have different speakers in each cabinet.

At the moment I do have different crossovers in each cabinet. One clearly sounds better than the other.

As stated the Horn Tweeters and Woofers are original parts for these speakers.

(I mentioned that the woofers were not in there originally for me personally. I picked up ones that are supposed to go in those cabinents online. From someone who thought they were car-audio subs... even though they are 8ohm.)

Now the midranges... I had these KLH speakers given to me that were orignally part of a HT setup. The rear channels. Which had a tweeter and woofer. The woofer was 4inches. The exact size needed to fill the midrange hole in my cabinets.

So both cabinents have the same set up... especially after I install the new crossovers.

Thank you for your response Otto... that was good. However I'm not going to buy book-shelf speakers to replace floorstanding ones. I agree that I spent a good deal of money... I would also suggest that barring different opinion, that these speakers as they currently stand sound better than most bookshelf varieties. Granted these days technology has come far in the sound that a small speaker can deliver. Also what bookshelf would I put them on...LOL We are speaking of my front main channels. As I've said before if I needed I could put my rear-channels (which are also floor standing back in the front). They are ones I purchased long ago, and still sound excellent. Also the other issue here, is if I purchase new speakers... the wife see's them. I purchased new crossovers... the wife won't see those. She'll go to bed, and I'll install them during the 'simpsons' @ 11pm. Although with these I should test them first... then soldier them down correctly, which will prolly take some time, but time well spent. It'll prolly need to be done one cabinent a night.

 

[markw]

Did you at least pick up one of those $18 books at Parts Express, for which I provided a link?

At least then you'll have some idea of what you're up against.

But, then again, it's your money...

 

[robertkjr3d]

who reads books anymore?... this is the double-0 decade. Can't all information be found online?

At this point I'm kinda stuck with a direction to go... Install the crossovers... then possibly replace the midranges with replacement speakers. The 4inch hole size may be a bit small, and I might have to cut out a little larger hole, and replace with something a little larger. But those are later steps.

When I get them installed I'll report on this site whether I believe I actually produced a set of speakers to be proud of.

Already if you come to my house and listen to a DVD in 5.1... Your mouth will drop as others does! We had March of the penguins a week ago... and there is this gong in the music every so often... even at the end. In my living room, it sounded like a 8 foot wide gong being hit right there in the room. Another movie where the air plane would go from the back left to the front right... it's such an amazing sound, I feel like I'm a kid again when my dad brought home a little stereo radio... and heard stereo sound for the first time. (note we had a record player... but one speaker was broken...LOL).

My ears I believe are quite intune with what sounds good and bad. My front speakers that I say sound poor when used by themselves, most people would not even notice. Only certain crazy people like me want things to be absolutely perfect.

I'm also the guy that 10 years ago, would drive 45 minutes to see a movie when there was a theater down the street. The theater down the street of course claimed to be Dolby Digital and all that. But the sound still sucked. They didn't pay attention to the volume... nor did the sound seem very seperated.