Ascend vs Paradigm

[tla536]

Can anyone help me with a speaker question? I just went and listened to some paradigm speakers and they include the Monitor 5, 7 and 9's which I did not like. Then I listen to the Reference Studio 40, 60 and 100's and I thought the 60's sounded the best very clean and crisp at the high end. The 40's were just as clean but did not have the bottom end which I guess could be made up from a sub. All of this was being run by a Denon 3805 and we were at about 30 DB and 24 DB on the dial. My big question is how will these compare to the Ascend 340SE's that a lot of people rave about and I can not find a pair to listen to ????? Any suggestions will be a big help

 

[speakerman39]

Can anyone help me with a speaker question? I just went and listened to some paradigm speakers and they include the Monitor 5, 7 and 9's which I did not like. Then I listen to the Reference Studio 40, 60 and 100's and I thought the 60's sounded the best very clean and crisp at the high end. The 40's were just as clean but did not have the bottom end which I guess could be made up from a sub. All of this was being run by a Denon 3805 and we were at about 30 DB and 24 DB on the dial. My big question is how will these compare to the Ascend 340SE's that a lot of people rave about and I can not find a pair to listen to ????? Any suggestions will be a big help

Well from what I understand it as I may the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170's are on par with the Paradigm Studio 20 v.3's . Likewise, the Ascend CMT-340m's are on par with the Studio 40 v.3's. However, the Studio 20 v.3's are BIG shoes to fill so to speak and am not exactly sure how the CBM-170's would truly stack up. Personally, I didn't care for the Studio 40 v.3's--I mean what do they really do the Studio 20's don't??? What maybe just a little bit of low frequency extension and a slightly larger soundstage??? Or maybe just can handle a little more power than the Studio 20 v.3's???? Dont take me wrong the Studio 40 v.3's are nice BUT not worth the extra money to me as opposed to the Studio 20 v.3's. I will say this that if the Ascend CBM170/cmt340-m is as good if not better than the Studio 20/40 v.3's respectively then they are "THE" bargain of the century. Heck, the Studio 20 v.3's cost $850 a set now and the 40 v.3's are $1300. Therefore, if it is true then the Ascends are truly "GIANT KILLERS". BTW, the "SE" versions are now using a custom designed SEAS tweeter and an improved mid driver as well. It would be a good bet to at least try a pair out and see what you think. Hey if the Ascends do not fancy you then just send them back. What do you really got to loose??? Good luck in your decision.

 

[ichigo]

Most of the Studio 20 vs Ascend comparisons online seem to lean positively in the direction of the Ascends. A few DIYers have also spoken up to so-call "legitimize" these observations. However regardless what other people say, you will never know what you prefer unless you are able to hear it yourself.

Unless you are buyng speakers to enlarge thy so-called "e-peen". In that case, buy the most expensive speaker

 

[Johnd]

My big question is how will these compare to the Ascend 340SE's that a lot of people rave about and I can not find a pair to listen to ????? Any suggestions will be a big help

Ascend has a 30 day full return policy. Why don't you try that since you seem so keen on them? You obviously know what you like, and what you want, so my suggestion is to keep sampling. I have the studio series and love 'em. Digm rocks!

 

[j_garcia]

I personally would pick the Ascends. I've had the 20s and 40s in my setup (v3) for an in home audition and I did not end up buying them. Very good speakers, but not what I was looking for. Had I not stumbled onto GR, I probably would have bought Ascends.

 

[speakerman39]

I personally would pick the Ascends. I've had the 20s and 40s in my setup (v3) for an in home audition and I did not end up buying them. Very good speakers, but not what I was looking for. Had I not stumbled onto GR, I probably would have bought Ascends.

Have you done an actual A/B test with respect to the Studio20v.3's/CBM-170's??? How about between the Studio40v.3's/CMT-340M's???? Just curious because you seem to have a good handle on how speakers sound. That is, I have read many of your posts. Have you compared the new "SE" versions to the Studio v.3's???

 

[Johnd]

Ditto. I can't stress enough how important speaker auditioning is. While opinions can be offered and considered, opinions are not nearly as meaningful with speakers as they are with components and displays.

 

[tla536]

Speakerman: To answer your question about the A/B. NO!!! The stereo store that I was listening to the paradigm will not let me order and/or buy a set and take them home to audition. With that said there is no place that I can find that has the Ascend's to listen to, so I am in a catch 22 if you know what I mean.

Terry

 

[jonnythan]

Order the Ascends.

If you really don't like them, return them and get the Paradigms.

You can't do the opposite.

 

[Johnd]

Speakerman: To answer your question about the A/B. NO!!!

tla536: The triple exclamation points make your case. Where in Wisconsin are you? I'm in Milwaukee. As written above, Ascend has a 30 day money back warranty...and while I can't blame a dealer for not letting one do an out-of-store audition of every set (or any set) of speakers he has, try this. Order the Ascends that you're interested in (first confirming the return policy), and then see if your Paradigm dealer won't let you bring the Ascends into his shop so that you can do an A/B comparison (given room acoustics, component and cable differences) right there. Apples:apples. He may want you to do it first thing in the morning, or last thing in the evening, but a reputable dealer will allow this (if he thinks there's at least a 50/50 chance of your purchasing the system from him).

 

[j_garcia]

I haven't done an actual A/B with them because I didn't have them at the same time. The Ascends sound closer to the GRs I currently have, which I chose over the Studio 40s. I had the 40s and the A/V-2s back to back and it wasn't even close in my mind. I have not heard the SEs yet, but I would really like to

The Ascends are sold direct only, so you won't find them in a store. If you want to check around for an audition, head over to their forums and ask if there is anyone willing to allow you to come audition them. I do that all the time so people can come listen to my GRs

You are actually better off doing a comparison in your own home. I agree with jonnythan - order a pair of Ascends and then check with your Paradigm dealer and see if they will let you take a pair home to auditon; that's what I did. I got a demo pair of the GRs and my Paradigm dealer lent me the 40s for a week. I had previously heard the smaller A/V-1s as well as the Studio 20s in my system at separate times. The 170s didn't have that much bass, but they are extremely clear in the midrange - something important to me. The highs are smooth and natural also. The Studios on the other hand have a definite brightness to the highs to my ears, which seems to throw off the midrange. With certain music, I found that they could become tiring to listen to. I also listened to the Studio 20s with the Signature S2s in a shop and the S2s really impressed me.

 

[scotty11]

I have heard the newer Ascend 170's a few times at a friends house in the past 2 months.

when he originally ordered he did not know they were just about to introduce a newer model with improved drivers so customer svc at Ascend told him to refuse the package and they would send him the newer speakers.
they shiped him the new speakers at no additional charge.

Ive been at his home a few times and the 170's are very impressive.
they are quite deep for bookshelf speakers,especially the center channel which looked as deep as the 170's.
for both music and HT they sounded very nice with a sub.
I had to turn up the treble a bit for music as i have gotten used to my Axioms.

I would reccomend the Ascends without reservation but you have to judge for yourself.Im sure they have a 30 day return policy so it wouldnt cost much to demo them if you decided not to keep them.

 

[krabapple]

Speakerman: To answer your question about the A/B. NO!!! The stereo store that I was listening to the paradigm will not let me order and/or buy a set and take them home to audition. With that said there is no place that I can find that has the Ascend's to listen to, so I am in a catch 22 if you know what I mean.

Terry

In-store A/B isn't all that useful anyway...room acoustics and speaker position have such a huge effect on the sound, it's unlikely the two sets of speakers would sound in your home like they did in the salon. So a liberal return policy is what you want.

 

[Johnd]

In-store A/B isn't all that useful anyway...room acoustics and speaker position have such a huge effect on the sound, it's unlikely the two sets of speakers would sound in your home like they did in the salon. So a liberal return policy is what you want.

krabapple...you again! I'll agree, to a point. It's not only unlikely, it's most probable that his room acoustics will make the speakers sound different, but hopefully in a good way. While most upper end dealers have "good space" in their auditioning rooms, they are far from anechoic chambers. Since the Paradigm dealer will not allow an out-of-store audition, I believe an A/B in-store audition is second-best. Then tla536 just needs to ascertain that his room acoustics are as good, or better, than the dealer's. The human ear is funny, it has a very short memory. Side by side comparisons are a must. Cheers!

 

[---k---]

If you do a search over at AVS, you'll likely come across my one week in home demo of the Studio 40s, Ascend 340SE, and DynAudio 42.

Bottom line, it comes down to what you like. They are very very very differnt sounding, and neither one is necessarily better than the other. I can't stress that enough.

To me, the Paradigm has a very forward, bigger, more room filling sound than the Ascends. They are probably on the brighter side of the specturm, but not necessarily as crisp and clear as the Ascends. Some have said that they sound like a blanket was thrown over them. I found the bass to be plentiful, but lacking punch, but this could be a result of my low end receiver. Although it would seem like I'm down on them, I really enjoyed turning the Paradigms way up and leaning back in my chair and singing along.

The Ascends don't have the forward sound like the Paradigms. I like the forward sound. Many don't. But, the Ascends excel in providing a very accurate sound. If your into critical listening, and want accurate speakers, not ones that emphisis the bass or highs like other brands, then I think the Ascends are the most accurate speaker you can buy for $500 - $800.

Most people who aren't into really listening, prefer the Paradigms upon first listen at my place. But, after a few quick switches and pointing out what to listen for, all would agree that the Ascends were more accurate. After that, it was about 50-50 which was prefered.

 

[speakerman39]

Speakerman: To answer your question about the A/B. NO!!! The stereo store that I was listening to the paradigm will not let me order and/or buy a set and take them home to audition. With that said there is no place that I can find that has the Ascend's to listen to, so I am in a catch 22 if you know what I mean.

Terry

TLA yes I know what you mean. Why not, as many has recommended just order (1)pair of the Ascends and then take them to your Paradigm Dealer and do an A/B test. Even if the set-up at your Paradigm dealer is not "ideal" at least you will have some idea as to which you prefer. By all accounts, it is very obvious to me that you would not go wrong picking either one. It is IMPERATIVE that you choose what only you prefer and NOT what everybody else is trying to get you to buy. Only you know exactly what you prefer and to which of the two is the closest to what you are looking for is solely up to you. I am sure you will know if you can do an A/B test. If for some reason or another you do not like the Ascends then send them back. Big deal you was out $25-30 dollars for shipping. It would be worth that much to me just to be sure I made the right choice. Happy hunting and good luck. Be sure to let us know what you decide and how it all turns out.

 

[Johnd]

Sage advice, speakerman, sage advice.

 

[krabapple]

krabapple...you again! I'll agree, to a point. It's not only unlikely, it's most probable that his room acoustics will make the speakers sound different, but hopefully in a good way. While most upper end dealers have "good space" in their auditioning rooms, they are far from anechoic chambers. Since the Paradigm dealer will not allow an out-of-store audition, I believe an A/B in-store audition is second-best. Then tla536 just needs to ascertain that his room acoustics are as good, or better, than the dealer's. The human ear is funny, it has a very short memory. Side by side comparisons are a must. Cheers!

Home listening rooms aren't anaechoic chambers either. That's not the problem. It's that they may or may not be acoustically superior to a salon auditioning room - and they are likely to be quite different either way. How anyone would ascertain in any accurate way how their room acoustics vary from the salon's (without measuring in room response of both), much less how they would factor that in during a listening session, is unclear to me. Given the chance the your results in store could be exactly *opposite* of what you'd get at home, in-store A/B seems not just second best, but potentially misleading. So, again, a liberal return policy would seem the way to go, *if *you are very concerned with comparing sound. Buy two sets of speakers, return one. (Even there, it's pretty nigh impossible to do a rigorous comparison of speakers at home, since even small differences in position will matter, and blind conditions may be difficult to achieve -- Harman had to build an expensive facility with a mechanical 'speaker changer' to perform their speaker evaluation tests).

I should add that I've never done such comparisons. I go by published bench measurements and reviews, and cross my fingers. AFAIK both speakers in question have done well by those criteria.

 

[Johnd]

Home listening rooms aren't anaechoic chambers either. That's not the problem. It's that they may or may not be acoustically superior to a salon auditioning room - and they are likely to be quite different either way. How anyone would ascertain in any accurate way how their room acoustics vary from the salon's (without measuring in room response of both), much less how they would factor that in during a listening session, is unclear to me. Given the chance the your results in store could be exactly *opposite* of what you'd get at home, in-store A/B seems not just second best, but potentially misleading. So, again, a liberal return policy would seem the way to go, *if *you are very concerned with comparing sound. Buy two sets of speakers, return one. (Even there, it's pretty nigh impossible to do a rigorous comparison of speakers at home, since even small differences in position will matter, and blind conditions may be difficult to achieve -- Harman had to build an expensive facility with a mechanical 'speaker changer' to perform their speaker evaluation tests).

I should add that I've never done such comparisons. I go by published bench measurements and reviews, and cross my fingers.

It's second best because there is no option of buying and returning the Paradigms; you buy, their yours. So an in-store A/B comparison is second best.

And while none of have anechoic chambers at home, neither do any of of us have our theaters in glass rooms with sharp angles (and least I hope not). Meaning all but the worst of acoustical problems can be mitigated, if not corrected entirely.

Which brings my to another point of that overused adage "home theater." It has unfortunately come to mean (to the masses, anyway) any space with a display and speakers. Not so for me. For me, "home theater" means much more; a room well-suited for both the acoustical and visual demands that a medium to high-end system offers (in such an environment). So when people in this forum use the term home theater, listening room, or their reference system, I have skipped right past that 90% of ht owners that don't know the first thing about the effects of glass, wood, concrete, stone, furniture, fabrics, and all the other things we can throw into the "home theater", including the kitchen sink. But I digress. We can delve more completely into this in another thread.

So, no, the A/B in-store comparison is the second best option (especially since it is the only option for the paradigms). I'm toast.

 

[tla536]

Johnd: I live in Pleasant Prairie right off of HY 50 & I-94. I am going to order the Ascend 340se fronts and 340se center and we will se what happens. I also agree with you about people don't understand about HT. We could talk about this in another thread, but just for your information I did sound testing and supervised and installed a Semi-Anechoic Sound Test Chamber for about 9 years on motors. This is were I have a lot of fun when I go to a stereo store and some of these guys try and tell me stuff that I know is all BULL! Anyway thanks for your help. I will post a response when I get the new speakers and let you know what I think. I hear that the Ascend’s are on a wait list and I will call tonight and see how long before they can ship a set out to me. Again thanks for all of your help.

Terry