Ascend Sierra Tower + Emotiva XPA-11 = Burnt Voicecoil

highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
This is the video I made to show Dave. My built in mic and recording skills aren't too great so you might wanna turn it down because it sounds like crap, but you can see how much my drivers (80 hz crossover) were moving at that volume.

What provides the HP crossover- AVR? What is the stated slope?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
What provides the HP crossover- AVR? What is the stated slope?
Avr (SR6011) crossover. I'm not sure of the slope, but assuming 24 dB? I could be wrong.
Wow, nice video! How hard do you think your Monolith amp (iirc) was pushing at that point?
Why thank you.

Well, using the Homestead calculator and subtracting 3 dB from sensitivity (87 instead of 90 dB) to account for the 4 ohm speaker rating I'm coming up with around 150 watts for that volume.

 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Oh, and yes it's a Monolith 7 amp. Rated conservatively for 300 wpc into 4 ohms.
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Well, using the Homestead calculator and subtracting 3 dB from sensitivity (87 instead of 90 dB) to account for the 4 ohm speaker rating I'm coming up with around 150 watts for that volume.
You know, I'd say that actually justifies me having an external amp. Not that I listen regularly at that volume, but even if it's very rare I have hit at least 150 watts. That does exceed my receiver's capabilities and I'd have certainly been into clipping territory.
 
J

jeeper

Enthusiast
How long were they playing at volume before the mid fried? This measurement was taken using a calibrated mic at my seat, 15 feet from the front stage.

View attachment 52124

That was really, really loud. Unsafe loud, but not for more than a song or 2. Even at that I was a little nervous because the drivers were getting ready to hop out of the cabinet. This is the video I made to show Dave. My built in mic and recording skills aren't too great so you might wanna turn it down because it sounds like crap, but you can see how much my drivers (80 hz crossover) were moving at that volume.

Nice video, and thanks for sharing. I was probably playing that for at least a couple of hours. It was a party and I had the dance floor going... So even after I realized it was busted, I was like f-it, more tequila shots & let's go...

When I took the measurements the other day I had the volume at -8, was fully sober... and didn't find it to be particularly loud though. IDK, maybe my hearing is damaged already lol. I'll try to get an SPL meter and take some measurements as well.
 
J

jeeper

Enthusiast
Here's a video of my damaged woofer... Apologies in advance for the pop music :rolleyes:

 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Nice video, and thanks for sharing. I was probably playing that for at least a couple of hours. It was a party and I had the dance floor going... So even after I realized it was busted, I was like f-it, more tequila shots & let's go...

When I took the measurements the other day I had the volume at -8, was fully sober... and didn't find it to be particularly loud though. IDK, maybe my hearing is damaged already lol. I'll try to get an SPL meter and take some measurements as well.
Phew, yeah. Parties, tequila shots and loosey goosey with volume control have blown many a speaker.

I was turned up to 0 when I measured that spl, which is quite a bit higher than -8. However that was only for a song or 2 and there are other factors to consider that makes the position of the volume dial kind of irrelevant such as how it's calibrated, distance from your speakers, source, etc. etc... Some sources are just mixed hot and depending on what you were listening to, -8 on your dial could be equal to +5 on mine. Some sources can even cause clipping at lower volumes than that.

A couple of hours at high volume can definitely punish a speaker, but I think it'd take quite a lot to smoke a driver like that. I don't think -8 on my dial is too excessive for most of my music or other sources, but it is pretty loud and I wouldn't see me playing at that volume for a couple of hours at a time. I've never pushed my speakers that hard for more than a song or 2 at a time.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Here's a video of my damaged woofer... Apologies in advance for the pop music :rolleyes:

Ouch. That crackling is heartbreaking. I feel for you 100%.

Did no one notice any distortion or bad behavior leading up to that? You sure nobody goosed the volume above -8? I can see it going by unnoticed if everyone was buzzed up and having a good time.

*Edit: Another consideration is that you can acclimate to higher spl's and what might normally be very loud to you can be perceived as "wasn't that loud" after a while, especially with a couple of hours of exposure.
 
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slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
In all honesty, if it was just partying and loosey goosey on the volume, that is his best case scenario.

While that sucks, at least it would mean the equipment is fine. Next step-- Turn on the max volume limiter!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
haha the truth is finally out, partying right, of course..:D:D Your amp is looking good again.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
haha the truth is finally out, partying right, of course..:D:D Your amp is looking good again.
With what Dave said about the robustness of 70/20 RAALs, a couple of hours at high spl with the possibility of someone goosing it up even more throughout the night I'd say it is conceivable to burn out those mids before the tweeter. I've probably had mine just as loud, maybe even more, but not for more than a few minutes at at time, and it made me nervous doing it.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Nice video, and thanks for sharing. I was probably playing that for at least a couple of hours. It was a party and I had the dance floor going... So even after I realized it was busted, I was like f-it, more tequila shots & let's go...

When I took the measurements the other day I had the volume at -8, was fully sober... and didn't find it to be particularly loud though. IDK, maybe my hearing is damaged already lol. I'll try to get an SPL meter and take some measurements as well.
Look into 'hearing threshold shift'- if you listen once at high SPL, it will shift, but it may take a while to return to 'normal;. The problem is, nobody in history has avoided being exposed to high SPL, even people who live in isolation.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Look into 'hearing threshold shift'- if you listen once at high SPL, it will shift, but it may take a while to return to 'normal;. The problem is, nobody in history has avoided being exposed to high SPL, even people who live in isolation.
That's what I was alluding to earlier. After enough exposure your perception of "loud" shifts. Too much exposure and at worse it doesn't come 100% back.
 
J

jeeper

Enthusiast
Ouch. That crackling is heartbreaking. I feel for you 100%.

Did no one notice any distortion or bad behavior leading up to that? You sure nobody goosed the volume above -8? I can see it going by unnoticed if everyone was buzzed up and having a good time.

*Edit: Another consideration is that you can acclimate to higher spl's and what might normally be very loud to you can be perceived as "wasn't that loud" after a while, especially with a couple of hours of exposure.
The smell is what we noticed first, and then the crackling... There really wasn't any distortion that we heard prior to it, granted however that none of us were really in a listening mode.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
The smell is what we noticed first, and then the crackling... There really wasn't any distortion that we heard prior to it, granted however that none of us were really in a listening mode.
Did it seem that the volume had dropped a bit? If so, that's called 'thermal compression', meaning that the voice coils became so hot that their resistance increased, preventing the amplifier's voltage developing the same power as if they were at normal temperature. Power is a calculated value, based on Voltage & nominal impedance (resistance, for the sake of discussion) and if the Voltage remains constant but the resistance rises, the power must be less. The concept has to do with the fact that a conductor's resistance will rise as its temperature increases.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I don't think I'd worry about turning it up to -10, maybe a li'l more even, when watching movies and stuff. Blu rays are usually mixed wrt a reference, which is 85 dB with room for 20 dB peaks. A setup routine aims for that standard at the mlp when the volume dial is at 0. That's louder than most of us watch movies at, but depending on the mix sometimes I'll crank it up to even -5 so I can hear dialogue during quieter passages. Plus it's more up and down dynamic than music, and music has no such standard so there's no consistency and a lot of newer music is mixed intentionally hot. Look up the "loudness wars" for some more info on that.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
The smell is what we noticed first, and then the crackling... There really wasn't any distortion that we heard prior to it, granted however that none of us were really in a listening mode.
You need a set of Cerwin Vegas for your future party needs :cool:
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
OP did mention the party back in post 30. Before parties perhaps set max to an appropriate level, and for when you're on your own you can probably trust yourself with a bit more....personally I set mine to 0 and rarely go there. I'd change it during a party to -10
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
That's what I was alluding to earlier. After enough exposure your perception of "loud" shifts. Too much exposure and at worse it doesn't come 100% back.
Members of active Military, musicians, factory & construction workers- all hit hard by this.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
OP did mention the party back in post 30. Before parties perhaps set max to an appropriate level, and for when you're on your own you can probably trust yourself with a bit more....personally I set mine to 0 and rarely go there. I'd change it during a party to -10
This is one of the main reasons I really like the level limit setting- I have been to too many parties where someone decides that cranking someone else's stereo to WOT is just what the party needs.
 

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