Are my speakers the weakest link? If so, please help with (bookshelf) speaker upgrade suggestions!

[johnp98]

I have been thoroughly enjoying going down the hifi rabbit hole and learning lots.

So far I have:
Upgraded from a super generic kenwood receiver to a used Marantz SR 7002 for a very good price.
Upgraded to dual subs (nothing crazy high end, just used 10" subs that for now are doing the job) but I do get a pretty flat response up to the crossover at 120hz.
Bought a UMIK-1 microphone and learned to use REW for ideal dual sub and speaker placement.
Pulled the front speakers ~3 feet off the front wall and optimized my listening and speaker positions.
(My room is ~20ft wide and ~10ft deep, and I listen with the speakers ~6ft apart ~6ft away).
Made some DIY diffusers and absorbers (mostly for behind me as the side reflections are much further away).

But the one thing that I have been saving for last (which maybe I should have done first), is evaluating my front speakers.

Currently I have Energy e:XL bookshelf speakers and they certainly seem to be doing a fine job (probably because of all the prior optimizations) but I am wondering if they are now the weakest link in my system? Would I get a noticeable improvement with better front speakers?

I use my setup for home theater use, but what I do enjoy most is just pure and simple stereo music listening with the 2.2 setup (right now I use my PC or Xbox to play music through Spotify (Although I am using Tidal right now, as they had a trial promo).
I really do appreciate a good soundstage, and this would be one of the main things I would be hoping to improve.

So looking at my system, are my speakers clearly the weakest link? Or would adding stereo amp give better bang for the buck?

And if so, what would be the absolute best speakers to look into (up to the point of the other factors being the main limiting factor).
I was thinking that bookshelf speakers would be ideal, as I am using a sub for the low end, and I am listening not too far away. But do tell me if that reasoning is incorrect.
Anyways I am keen for suggestions!

As for price, lets assume price is not a factor (as I am graduating soon, so might be my self graduation present), but certainly I would be wary of significant diminishing returns, or other aspects of my setup becoming the main limiting factor.

If that is too vague, then suggestions for best <$1,000 and $1,000-$5000 speakers would be ideal (specifically ignoring the need for a low end, and looking for speakers that image extremely well for music listening).

Thanks!

 

[Pogre]

New speakers and putting the bulk of your budget into them is a very good plan. You kinda glossed over your subwoofage tho. That's a lot more important than most people realize. I'm not talking boom boom. I'm talking the type of smooth, clean bass that make your main speakers sound cleaner and clearer. So curious what you have now. I don't know anything about your current main speakers tho, I'll do a quick Google search after this post.

 

[lovinthehd]

Speakers are almost always the weak point in a way. I see several different iterations of an Energy eXL speakers/subs but not a lot....is there more to the model designation?

 

[johnp98]

New speakers and putting the bulk of your budget into them is a very good plan. You kinda glossed over your subwoofage tho. That's a lot more important than most people realize. I'm not talking boom boom. I'm talking the type of smooth, clean bass that make your main speakers sound cleaner and clearer. So curious what you have now. I don't know anything about your current main speakers tho, I'll do a quick Google search after this post.

As for my subs, I have a 10" energy sub and a 10" jamo sub (both ported). I am eyeing making 18" DIY subs, so that is why I glossed over it as I am on the fence about the sub situation (probably best for another thread).

As for the speaker here is a bit of info:

ENERGY E:XL-16 OWNER'S MANUAL Pdf Download

View and Download Energy E:XL-16 owner's manual online. e:XL Series loudspeakers. e:XL-16 speakers pdf manual download. Also for: E:xl-c, E:xl-r, E:xl-25, E:xl-26, E:xl-28p, Pro series e:xl-15, E:xl-15.

www.manualslib.com

Energy Speaker Systems eXL XLR Surround Speakers user reviews : 4.6 out of 5 - 7 reviews - audioreview.com

Energy Speaker Systems eXL XLR Surround Speakers user reviews : 4.6 out of 5 - 7 reviews - audioreview.com

www.audioreview.com

As for which type within the e:XL series, I am not 100% sure. They have a 4" cone and tweeter, but I assume that does not help narrow it down. Hummmm.

 

[Beave]

Yes, your speakers are most likely your weakest link. Even for people with fairly expensive speakers, the speakers are the weakest link!

A stereo amp might be a step backwards because it probably won't have bass management. I assume you're using bass management in the Marantz to set crossover frequency and levels for your speakers and subs?

If you can find some, the Energy C series (the Connoisseur series, C1, C3, C5, C7, C9) were much better than the Energy XL series. They show up used for pretty cheap on Craigslist and eBay and similar sites.

There are lots of bookshelf speakers, new and used, that will be an improvement for a reasonable price.

What is your budget for speakers, and where are you located?

 

[johnp98]

Yes, your speakers are most likely your weakest link. Even for people with fairly expensive speakers, the speakers are the weakest link!

A stereo amp might be a step backwards because it probably won't have bass management. I assume you're using bass management in the Marantz to set crossover frequency and levels for your speakers and subs?

If you can find some, the Energy C series (the Connoisseur series, C1, C3, C5, C7, C9) were much better than the Energy XL series. They show up used for pretty cheap on Craigslist and eBay and similar sites.

There are lots of bookshelf speakers, new and used, that will be an improvement for a reasonable price.

What is your budget for speakers, and where are you located?

You are correct, I am using my receiver for bass management.

I am located in Canada.

I would be interest in comparing what I could get in two price ranges (<$1,000 and $1,000-$5000)
I am not opposed to hunting around and buying used.
I am also very tempted by DIY, so if you know of any good DIY bookshelf speakers I would also be all ears.

 

[Pogre]

Okay, after reading your post again and looking up your speakers

As for my subs, I have a 10" energy sub and a 10" jamo sub (both ported). I am eyeing making 18" DIY subs, so that is why I glossed over it as I am on the fence about the sub situation (probably best for another thread).

As for the speaker here is a bit of info:

ENERGY E:XL-16 OWNER'S MANUAL Pdf Download

View and Download Energy E:XL-16 owner's manual online. e:XL Series loudspeakers. e:XL-16 speakers pdf manual download. Also for: E:xl-c, E:xl-r, E:xl-25, E:xl-26, E:xl-28p, Pro series e:xl-15, E:xl-15.

www.manualslib.com

Energy Speaker Systems eXL XLR Surround Speakers user reviews : 4.6 out of 5 - 7 reviews - audioreview.com

Energy Speaker Systems eXL XLR Surround Speakers user reviews : 4.6 out of 5 - 7 reviews - audioreview.com

www.audioreview.com

As for which type within the e:XL series, I am not 100% sure. They have a 4" cone and tweeter, but I assume that does not help narrow it down. Hummmm.

Well again, you're a little sparse with the details, but I'd guess what you have now is sneaking some distortion into your sound. Cheaper or undersized subs have a way of doing that, and because of the way we hear bass it doesn't smack you over the head like it does in higher frequencies. I didn't notice it in my system until it was gone and it really did sound like it cleaned up my main speakers too. You indicated you're also considering your sub situation tho, so agree it's probably better for another thread. Just wanted to give you some more to think about!

You have some options as far as speakers with your budget. Canton, reduced at AC4L has been getting a lot of love around here lately. SVS Ultras are very nice. If you wanna get fancy there's Salk or Ascend speakers with RAAL ribbon tweeters.

 

[Pogre]

You are correct, I am using my receiver for bass management.

I am located in Canada.

I would be interest in comparing what I could get in two price ranges (<$1,000 and $1,000-$5000)
I am not opposed to hunting around and buying used.
I am also very tempted by DIY, so if you know of any good DIY bookshelf speakers I would also be all ears.

Ah, I think Canada would rule out Salk or Ascend. Paradigm and PSB have some really nice speakers too.

 

[NINaudio]

I'd say that your subs are probably the weakest link right now, but if you're eyeing building some DIY 18" ones, you're on the right track there.

Just quickly off the top of my head I'd suggest:

<1000:

Ultra bookshelf speakers

JBL 5 Series

Infinity Reference 263

$1-5,000:

Canton Chrono series

Ultra Towers

Paradigm Premier 800f's

Salk Song series (If shipping and conversion rates aren't insane for where you are)

JBL HDI series

 

[Beave]

You are correct, I am using my receiver for bass management.

I am located in Canada.

I would be interest in comparing what I could get in two price ranges (<$1,000 and $1,000-$5000)
I am not opposed to hunting around and buying used.
I am also very tempted by DIY, so if you know of any good DIY bookshelf speakers I would also be all ears.

Given your other equipment, I was under the impression you were budget-constrained.

In those ranges you can find dozens of speakers that will trounce what you have now.

Even in the $100-$300 range, if you shop wisely, you can find significantly better speakers.

Look here for a taste of what's available in Canada on the used market:

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/classifieds/26-bookshelf-speakers/

 

[Pogre]

Given your other equipment, I was under the impression you were budget-constrained.

In those ranges you can find dozens of speakers that will trounce what you have now.

Even in the $100-$300 range, if you shop wisely, you can find significantly better speakers.

Look here for a taste of what's available in Canada on the used market:

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/classifieds/26-bookshelf-speakers/

Right off the bat these jumped out to me.

Dynaudio Special 40 Bookshelf Speakers

Someone's in for a real treat as well as a great deal with these mint Dynaudio Special 40 speakers. These speakers are like new, I ordered them in November of 2019 and didn't really use them until mid December so they are just barely broken in. I am still kicking myself for giving these up but a...

www.canuckaudiomart.com

I think I remember reading some really nice things about those.

 

[Beave]

Dynaudio has its share of loyal followers. In my humble opinion their speakers are usually considerably overpriced for what they are. They used to justify their high prices by saying that the speakers are made in Denmark, but now some/many of their models are made elsewhere in Europe or in China. Yet the prices have continued to go up.

As for the Special 40 model, it has significant narrowband resonances in the midrange, as can be seen in these plots as the little mountain range around 600-800Hz

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1806:nrc-measurements-dynaudio-special-forty-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

These Stereophile measurements of that speaker show a cabinet resonance and a pipe resonance from the port output at those frequencies:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-special-forty-loudspeaker-measurements

So that speaker appears to be really nice drivers in a cabinet that looks great but isn't doing its job so well.

 

[johnp98]

I'd say that your subs are probably the weakest link right now, but if you're eyeing building some DIY 18" ones, you're on the right track there.

Just quickly off the top of my head I'd suggest:

<1000:

Ultra bookshelf speakers

JBL 5 Series

Infinity Reference 263

$1-5,000:

Canton Chrono series

Ultra Towers

Paradigm Premier 800f's

Salk Song series (If shipping and conversion rates aren't insane for where you are)

JBL HDI series

Perfect, I will keep an eye out for those on the used market (and canuckaudiomart) while I research them and see if going new is the way to go.