Apple's LCD TV Not Out Yet and Already Making Waves

[admin]

Unless you've been living under a rock, you've heard the rumors of a pending Apple-branded television. Not that underachieving AppleTV black box, but a full-fledged flat panel TV that will somehow (and it's not hard to imagine how) revolutionize and simplify the home theater and television-watching experience. But check this out - KAE, a marketing and research company, started asking consumers if they'd be interested in an Apple-branded TV. In fact, they asked them if they'd buy one. 25 percent of U.S. respondents said they'd buy it today. A full 30 percent of UK consumers said the same thing. But that's not the end of it. When you factor in people who already own at least one Apple product, the number jumps 12 percent.

Discuss "Apple's LCD TV Not Out Yet and Already Making Waves" here. Read the article.

 

[mrmichaelbeck]

I think you're probably going to end up with the same sort of argument that cell users have now. iPhone or Android? Eventually Android will catch up and you'll be able to run it on just about anything. Apple will have their walled garden which will only work with Apple products. What's that? You have a non-Apple device that you want to connect to your home system? Sorry, we don't support that.

While I think that there is definitely room for simplification of setting up your system (these things still look like they were developed by Martian engineers instead of regular people), and having Apple jump into the foray to (r)evolutionize things, realistically, I don't see things changing all that much.

 

[lesser evil]

i-panel

Think about how the I-pad wasn't particularly new when it came out - it just added a lot of marketing hype to a hardware & software package that re-defined the market.

This is what we may see when the i-panel starts selling: It will have Sharp's IGZO 4K+ resolution "retina" display with a Qdeo or Silicon Image (DVDO) scaling chip built in, HDMI 1.4 w/ 3-d capacity (eventually w/o glasses) non - glare corning gorilla glass, built in DVR (wouldn't they just buy Tivo?), wireless remote by way of you're i-phone or i-pad, and built in 4G LTE connectivity or satellite reception.

Now when it becomes available in 84" diagonal at a reasonable price; I'm on board.

 

[fuzz092888]

An apple product at a "reasonable" price?

Don't get me wrong I love my apple products, but they aren't cheap and probably never will be (new anyways). Just as with everything there will be pros and cons, and if apple is going to come out with a tv I expect it to be awesome. Way too much money and a niche product, but awesome nonetheless.

 

[jonnythan]

Fuzz, most Apple products are reasonably priced. They're not cheap, but that's because they don't make low-end products. Their laptops, MP3 players, and phones all are pretty much at price parity with similar devices.

Anyway, the reason people are saying they would buy this is that Apple has worked very hard over the past decade+ to only release products that are very, very good. The public has learned over time that Apple won't release something half-assed.

 

[fuzz092888]

jonny you don't have to tell me they don't make low end products as I am the proud owner of an iPhone 4s, multiple iPods of varying generations and models, the apple cinema display, macbook pro 17 inch and iMac.

As I said there are pros and cons to apple products. They're great, but I take issue with details here and there and depending on your view point they may or may not make a product worth the money. For the record, while apple may control a large marketshare of pad products and cellphones they are dwarfed by other "PC" brands. This isn't because they don't make a quality product, it's because the PC companies offer tons of features packed into cheaper products (onkyo anyone?) for less money. Mac computer market share, ~5.2% and growing, but 5.2% nonetheless.

Can you get blu-ray on an apple computer? No, but you can get it on a $1000 PC, actually probably a sub-$1000 PC. Tradeoffs. Apple makes a quality product, the main issue is that for the average consumer they are very expensive. If you're a photographer, film editor, or art student type person a mac is worth the money and then some. If you want a rock solid piece of equipment that will likely never ever have a problem during it's lifetime and you plan on keeping it for most of it's lifetime then congrats you're buying a Mac. If you can live without some of the flexibility you get with a PC, can afford to sacrifice one or two built in features that you may or may not use, and have cash to burn then mac it is.

When I see new products come out, apple or otherwise, my first thought isn't about me and how I might interact with the product. My thoughts are, what kind of market is this going to command? How practical is it? Does it deliver more than I get elsewhere for similar or less money?

I have no doubt I'll be drooling over an apple TV should it ever come out, or when it comes out is a better statement. Does that mean I'd ever buy one? Probably not. Not if it costs as much as I think it may cost for all those features. For me personally, anything above $3000 is too much for an apple TV. It will be cool, it will be feature packed, and it will probably last forever. My arguments against me ever purchasing one (at a price above $3000) is that I can get a Panny plasma up to 65 inches for less and for another years worth of saving (theoretically) I could get a 4k projector that will let me go much bigger than an apple screen.

The apple TV will be probably be tremendous, but how much of the public will actually buy it? Enough to not call it a niche product? It may, but I doubt it. The first few iterations of the apple TV will show apple's intentions for it. Are they going to make a high end TV, but not necessarily go after the TV market, or are they going for total dominance?

As an aside, unless I see what questions were asked, how they polled people and some other information. I would call those statistics questionable at best.

 

[wiyosaya]

Statistically speaking, it is not a 38 percent chunk of the entire market. It is a 38 percent chunk of the market who already own an Apple product. So, it is really 38 percent X whatever fraction of the market population who already own an Apple product. This figure is likely to be less than 38 percent of the entire TV market if not much less than 38 percent of the entire TV market; personally, I do not have the data here on what percentage of the market already owns an Apple product so I am unable to give you a figure.

There are those of us who do not own Apple products, and, in fact, would not buy this TV - its an LCD based technology, and for Apple, I see this as not on the edge of innovation. If it were flexible OLED, or something truly cutting edge as I see it, I might consider it.

I'll speculate a bit further here in that if the TV does not meet the expectations of anyone, Apple product owner or not, who buys it, it will be a colossal flop. I would not be surprised if most or all of the "innovations" that might be expected are already being done by companies currently in the TV market like Samsung.

 

[GO-NAD!]

...But check this out - KAE, a marketing and research company, started asking consumers if they'd be interested in an Apple-branded TV. In fact, they asked them if they'd buy one. 25 percent of U.S. respondents said they'd buy it today. A full 30 percent of UK consumers said the same thing. But that's not the end of it. When you factor in people who already own at least one Apple product, the number jumps 12 percent....

It's one thing to say you'd "buy one today" on a survey. It's another thing altogether, if Apple actually releases such a TV, if those same people will follow through and actually buy it. Especially when they don't know the price or the exact features such a TV might have.

Yeah, Apple makes great products, but I'm a bit of a contrarian - I can't bring myself to swallow the Apple kool-aid...

 

[Ziontrain]

Oh enough with the Apple hype already. I dont understand why you people in the media insist on giving them free advertising. Have you asked yourself what their proflit line looks like and what yours looks like? That what happens when you mind control people into giving you free publicity.

As for the product, meh. Apple does anything it would only be an LCD, never a plasma. And it will be locked into them (who wants to be forced into registering with your credit card to turn on your own TV for the first time?). Probably sold with a 3 year contract to a cable company too. And if you think it wil have any HDMI port for you to plug in your WH or Popcorn hour, or play the million DVDs or Blu Rays your own, well you're kidding yourself. No, this thing will be a cash-sucking trojan horse in your living room, funneling you into Itunes every time, not focused on letting you enjoy yourself.

Yuck, no way. Buying something like that is self-abuse.

 

[fuzz092888]

Oh enough with the Apple hype already. I dont understand why you people in the media insist on giving them free advertising. Have you asked yourself what their proflit line looks like and what yours looks like? That what happens when you mind control people into giving you free publicity.

As for the product, meh. Apple does anything it would only be an LCD, never a plasma. And it will be locked into them (who wants to be forced into registering with your credit card to turn on your own TV for the first time?). Probably sold with a 3 year contract to a cable company too. And if you think it wil have any HDMI port for you to plug in your WH or Popcorn hour, or play the million DVDs or Blu Rays your own, well you're kidding yourself. No, this thing will be a cash-sucking trojan horse in your living room, funneling you into Itunes every time, not focused on letting you enjoy yourself.

Yuck, no way. Buying something like that is self-abuse.

The tv doesn't do anything for me, but apple does make great products. Yes you give up some of the flexibility and freedom you have with windows based PC's and with open source OS systems, but you also get a lot in return. I think your mind control line is interesting because it shows the mindset you're coming from. Now I'm as skeptical and paranoid as the next person, probably more so, and yes apple exercises a lot more control over their products than other companies, but I still feel like you get a lot more than you give.

One day this may not be true, but for now the tradeoffs are worth it, at least for me. As for your gripe with iTunes, I can't see an apple tv not having features like netflix and other streaming options so your insistence that you would get funneled into iTunes every time seems unfounded. Look at the apple tv small box thing, it offers plenty of other options to iTunes. Hey, if iTunes offers the same movies and music for similar prices, then why not iTunes?

Also, I fail to see what their profits have to do with their products. More profits for them means more people are buying their products and using their services, which means they must be doing something right. It also gives them that much more money to reinvest in R&D and technology. I don't care how big a company you are, you can't dupe millions of people forever, and if apple wasn't putting out good-great products and if the music and movies they offer weren't competitively priced I fail to see they wouldn't get called on it and people wouldn't start leaving their brand.

Their are pros and cons to every product and brand out there, I don't care which we may be talking about, but to just come and bash the apple and their possibly tv based only on shaky reasoning, opinion, and what is clearly a bias is unfair and irresponsible.

You want to talk about how it will be overpriced? Fine, I'm there with you. It will probably cost too much money for the average person. You want to blast it for being LCD? Ok, I've always been more of a plasma person anyways, but don't come in here and slander apple and it's products as a whole just because you have some unknown gripe with them (well somewhat known it would seem).

 

[Ziontrain]

Look at the apple tv small box thing, it offers plenty of other options to iTunes. Hey, if iTunes offers the same movies and music for similar prices, then why not iTunes? .

This is what I mean about mind control.

Lets have a look at a rare review of said Apple TV by a publication that actually tries to look at things from the consumer perspective:

Apple TV Digital Media Receiver Review | AVForums.com - UK Online
"...So far so good but what isn't so good about Apple TV is the nature of the internet content available, which is still very much aimed at the US. We suspect that few people in the UK are interested in the Wall Street Journal or Major League Baseball and it has no built-in tuner either, so you can't watch any Freeview content. If the Apple TV wants to be taken seriously, it really needs to include popular catch-up services like 4OD, ITV Player and especially BBC iPlayer. Another problem is that whilst AirPlay is robust, it isn't as flexible as DLNA and thus the Apple TV isn't necessarily the best choice for streaming media from your computer to your TV. Finally, iTunes is rather limited in the types video files it accepts and renting movies on it is quite expensive when compared to other video on demand services.

All of these issues might explain why the rumoured Apple television has failed to materialise because building a real TV isn't as easy as it looks, especially when you're as proprietary as Apple. By its very nature, TV is an open platform and it is also very region specific, so if Apple want to play in the TV market they're going to have to learn to share their toys. A successful TV will need a tuner, an open internet platform, flexible content streaming and a wider choice of video on demand services. If Apple just launch a US-centric, iTunes based television on the rest of the world - which is essentially what Apple TV is - it will fail miserably. The TV market is incredibly competitive and if Apple want to succeed in it, they will need more than intuitive interfaces and slick marketing....."

I dont mind reading a review like that. They are thinking with the conusmer in mind, not blindly promoting a product. What bothers me is the many fluff advertising around that masquerades as "reviews" of these products.

 

[fuzz092888]

First off, your remark about other publications is unfair to a degree. Yes there are many publications that tend to gloss over the downsides to apple products, but most of those have mac or apple in the publication's name. Besides, whatever happened to the smart consumer? Odds are, if you're interested in an apple tv or a similar product you aren't going to read one review by a publication that clearly loves apple and call it a day; and if you are one of those people, odds are you already have a bunch of apple products and you've long ago decided that apple was the brand for you, who cares what little things you lose because of it.

What do you mean about mind control?

If that's an insult aimed at me, then you're sorely mistaken. I am well aware of the faults that apple products possess, but for my purposes they suit my needs better than other brands (many of which I have owned). You're not speaking to someone who woke up one day and jumped on the apple bandwagon, I've been there done that with many brands of PCs, both my own and other peoples.

Aside from that let's compare apples to apples. Right now I'm in the US and as such are where my comments are based upon and where my priorities lie when it comes to products. Apple tv does offer an abundance of features if you are in the US and no, iTunes is not more expensive to other websites that offer similar content. Take amazon for one, they both charge almost exactly the same price, if not the same price for their on demand videos. Yes there are also places like Hulu and netflix, but the latter doesn't always have up to date content or everything you are looking for and the latter requires a monthly subscription.

Another gripe I have with your selected quotes is about DLNA. DLNA has issues of its own and is far from perfect. As far as I know DLNA doesn't stream lossless which is a big issue for me personally. Files are easily converted to file types that iTunes does accept Furthermore, I'd like to know products that offer the free view features that this article mentions, plus everything the the apple tv does (besides roku). This is the best part as well, you don't have to buy an apple tv, you can choose not to. You can choose to buy a roku, or to buy/build a HTPC, or do something else. I don't anyone here is just senselessly plugging apple or saying they are the best bar none.

As far as I can tell from this side of the pond, tv is about as far from an open platform as you can get. Heavily regulated by the FCC, channels only offered in expensive monthly packages that offer zero flexibility in choosing only the channels you actually watch and often times on demand pricing that is worse than streaming options.

Also, to compare the apple tv (real product) to the as of yet fictional apple tv is silly. They are two completely different products trying to fill very different areas of the consumer market. For what the apple tv is, it stands up pretty well compared to other similar products. Is it the best? Depends on your needs and wants, which can be said of any product more or less. If an apple tv ever does materialize I suspect that it will include all of the features necessary to make it successful enough for it to have been worth it for apple to create it.

Finally I'll say this, I can only assume the apple tv was marketed for a US audience and not tailored to fit the rest of the world, because they made the executive decision that it wasn't worth it from a profit standpoint. Crappy deal? Yes. Short end of the stick? Definitely. Fair to extend that to a product that hasn't even been created yet? Probably not. If it was truly a fair and impartial review they would merely be stating what features an apple television would need to compete and not taking a very negative tone with a product that does not yet exist and that we have little information about. They sound more bitter about not getting a product tailor made to their country like apple did with the US. A fair gripe, but they way in which they voiced their displeasure leaves the reader with the distinct sense that they may not be all that impartial and may not be the best place to be getting reviews from if personal feelings so easily flow into their reviews. Plus, they're bringing in a product that doesn't yet exist, is in a different albeit tangental area of the consumer market, and that we know little to nothing about. It would have been a fine review that spelled out the strengths and weaknesses of the apple tv fairly, had it not been for that bit about the apple television which kind of threw me. That being said, other than that little bit in the middle you quoted, the entire rest of the review is very positive and they would have rated the apple tv excellent in almost every category if the UK had gotten the attention the US market got.

If you have something against apple (which it seems you do) fine, it's your right to voice that displeasure. If you have a gripe with me, saying I'm brainwashed or some such nonsense, my feelings are that you can take a long walk off a short pier. If it was not your intention to say I've been brainwashed, then I apologize.......but I get the feeling I'm not wrong.

 

[BMXTRIX]

My issue with AppleTV is that it will be incredibly closed off from your own content.

It's fine to say that converting content is easy, but the reality is that it is NOT easy and Apple completely blows at any open system. Others aren't great, but some are far better.

If you have your own content, to add it to iTunes is generally a series of steps which require you to manually process each video, individually, then manually open iTunes and add it to your list. iTunes could easily scan your video folders and search for new content. It could easily go online and search for content.

Apple VERY specifically does NOT offer this type of feature, because it would compete with their own store.

While I love my iPhone and am enjoying my iPad, I think that Apple is going to fail in a big way with any attempts at a television if it doesn't offer a upgradable interface, in which case, the question of why integrate it with the TV? comes to mind. Really, why not make AppleTV a far better experience as it is instead of putting AppleTV into an actual TV? Since they are having, at best, marginal luck with AppleTV, it seems like they really don't have a solid grasp of making a great TV interface and the requirements that are so closely linked to iTunes... and a completely separate PC running with iTunes open and serving up content, is ridiculous.

Streamers like Roku are out there and are a great choice for a ton of people. Blu-ray players from Panasonic and others do many others very well.

I use a combination of players including my Dune players to deliver my HD movies to me from networked storage in my home.

I had an AppleTV for two years and got rid of it after it went unused due to the requirements by Apple and failures of the product. Meanwhile, I purchased a second Dune player for my home because we were (and still are!) fighting over who got to watch the next show on it.

I think Apple needs to get some people in to test this product who aren't enamoured with Apple as a company. Certainy it is worth noting that Samsung may be making money, but Philips and Sony are having huge issues while Pioneer is out after making the best looking display on the market.

I struggle to believe that we will see a half dozen (or more) Apple displays in stores and that they will offer enough more in quality to make them worthwhile to most people.

Still, I'm certainly interested in what Apple does and I am certainly open to being suprised by this.

 

[Ziontrain]

First off, your remark about other publications is unfair to a degree. Yes there are many publications that tend to gloss over the downsides to apple products, but most of those have mac or apple in the publication's name. Besides, whatever happened to the smart consumer?

The New York Times and the Wall Street Journal are our two largest national daily papers. None bear the Apple name. Would you say that their reviews of Apple products are balanced and critical where appropriate? Ir closer to advertising in the editorial portion of the newspaper? Have you thought about the market value of the volume and nature of uncritical fluff coverage that Apple gets in the press?

And if the above is true, then where exacty is it that the "smart consumer" will be cultivated? And by whom?

Now you could chose to pursue a wild tangent about me having an agenda. Or you could ponder the questions I am asking.

What do you mean about mind control?......Files are easily converted to file types that iTunes does accept Furthermore,

It May be useful for you to ponder these two remarks in juxtaposition. I dont think I could add more value in commentary.

 

[fuzz092888]

I would say that you're choosing two news publications that aren't exactly known for their unbiased opinions in general and therefore quoting them as not being objective is nonsense. Furthermore they're not technology publications meant to give unbiased opinions about the technology in question. I never said there isn't fluff out there, and the smart consumer isn't one who relies only on ads and reviews. The "smart consumer" isn't cultivated the arena of consumerism. The "smart consumer" is a mere part of the "smart person" and that development begins well before people start reading ads and reviews from biased publications that, IMO aren't valid examples. If you'd like to point out some specific technology publications that have very biased reviews and do not have clear bias, such as macworld, then I'd be glad to hear them.

If you truly believe that the "smart consumer" is only cultivated by ad, reviews, and other media that gives opinions about products then you are sorely mistaken and have much to learn about human psychological development and about how humans learn.

To me, it seems as if you do have a clear agenda. One that would be against any company that had apple like success and attention. To me it seems like you have an ax to grind with the media itself and you're just using apple as an outlet. Good marketing is good marketing and if people aren't capable of thinking for themselves then they deserve to get duped. Apple makes a great product and so do many other companies. Apple has a certain "flavor" that many people prefer and if you think that any other computer company wouldn't kill to have apple's marketing you're kidding yourself. Then you'd be here ranting about whatever company that was and how they're overrated and over exposed and that their products are whatever.

Obviously I have pondered the questions you've asked, apparently as or more deeply than you have. Unlike you I've chosen not to believe that people are mindless sheep like you seem to be implying. Yes there is a certain amount of market shift and flow that is due to marketing and yes there are plenty of people who fall into marketing traps, but with proper education they can make plenty of smart decisions. Education mind you starts in schools.

Again, implying mind control where none exists. I think you need to ponder why you're so paranoid. I'm well versed enough to not only use iTunes, but other programs as well. I've been around technology enough to understand itune's pros and cons and have a masters in technology so I know PCs and macs equally as well. Brain washed I surely am not. My comment, while taken out of context, was only meant to show that the limitations you spoke of are not as rampant as you would have people believe. Hence your axe to grind.

 

[Ziontrain]

sorry I made a duplicate post by mistake - deleting this one.

 

[Ziontrain]

I never said there isn't fluff out there, and the smart consumer isn't one who relies only on ads and reviews. The "smart consumer" isn't cultivated the arena of consumerism. The "smart consumer" is a mere part of the "smart person" and that development begins well before people start reading ads and reviews from biased publications that, IMO aren't valid examples. If you'd like to point out some specific technology publications that have very biased reviews and do not have clear bias, such as macworld, then I'd be glad to hear them.

If you truly believe that the "smart consumer" is only cultivated by ad, reviews, and other media that gives opinions about products then you are sorely mistaken and have much to learn about human psychological development and about how humans learn.

You're burned a lot of energy creating a red herring. If you really want to do this, I'd suggest trying harder, as its not working. I said an honest and ubiased press is necessary if there is to be a smart consumer. And a smart citizen by the way. Simple as that. You cant process that through your ideological filter, well that's one you. But

To me, it seems as if you do have a clear agenda. One that would be against any company that had apple like success and attention.

Yes, I have an agenda: Unbiased press and informed consumers. It's a crime? Okay, shoot me. You'll find that approach more useful that the red herring you lobbed in your second sentence. No offense, red herring is not exactly a mysterious art. If you're going to do that sort of dirty debate cheating, it does take more craft and subtlety than you're mustering here.

Anyway, is another perfect example of said mind control below. Figure out what is different between these two articles and their headlines, particularly after reading the underlying content.
Samsung overtakes Nokia to become world's top handset seller - Brand Republic News

Samsung profits jump as smartphone sales outstrip Apple - Telegraph

Sorry but that's just inexcusable. You can call it fanboy chasing, mind control, keyword chasing. What it surely is, is inexcusable behaviour by the press.

Brain washed I surely am not. My comment, while taken out of context, was only meant to show that the limitations you spoke of are not as rampant as you would have people believe..

"Out of context". Are you kidding? How? Did I use your comment two years later in a discussion on something else? Or did I use it......in the same discussion on same day to illustrate your lack of self-awareness? Do you actually know what the term "out of context" means. Its not a term that one can credibly use when one has been caught with ones pants down.

At least be manly enough to face the truth you were shown: in your own words, you clearly demonstrated a belief that consumers should adjust themselves to Apple - and not the other way around.

So far what is clear is that you believe all consumers should fit into Apple's straightjacket and anyone who thinks different is "paranoid" and "hates Apple". Yeah ok, sure. A look in the mirror is surely overdue.

This company is garnering a free pass on criticism and free publicity from clueless media. Its not a crime to point out this truth. And a person shouldnt feel subject to attack merely for stating what is factually clear.

 

[khorny]

apple products

Hi. This is a completely unbiased post. I don't work for apple and I don't own any apple products. I'm a plumber. I do see the value of what apple has done since the iPod though. Since the original iPod which many people have forgotten about, the simple mp3s player with a wheel and a button, apple has revolutionized and reinvented almost every product it has put out. Or they made it better in many ways arguably. Macs dominate other home PC's for raw audio and video editing since digital audio and video have been popular. Even with lower specs, (processing power and such) their products consistently perform better than the competition partly because the operating system is designed better and also because they have strict standards on hardware. How many phones have ios? Hmmmm. 4 or 5 generations with almost no deviation during the duration of that particular model. Android o.s. goes onto what seems like an endless list of hardware. I'm no software programmer. I'm a plumber. When you have one solid external and internal design for everything a particular piece of engineering was designed to fit into it usually works better. That's what apple products do. They usually work better. As a proud owner of an android phone over 2 1/2 years old I can say Motorola and Google do good work. I've never seen an apple product stand up to what this phone has been through (original Droid from 11/09). Its been runover by a car, drowned in water and rum & coke, kicked across a driveway, thrown around a room, punched, bitten and shot at...(all true but the last statement) . I have two batteries for my Droid and they both work great. Tdhey have both been through a wash and dry cycle and they can both be CHANGED out at any point. This dinosaur of a sweet smart phone doesn't work nearly as slick as my brother 4s and I don't expect it too. Apple TV will revolutionize the t.v. Who wants a remote when you can tell Siri to change the channel to discovery and she tells you she doesn't understand you. Spending time being frustrated with your expensive new electronics is what the digital age is all about. Isn't it??? (This is half joke. I own an old *** Droid and it is great bit apple is a few steps ahead of Google in software design). Read this carefully and digest with a grain of salt. This was written on an "original " Motorola Droid 1. Even the invisible shield is over 2 1/2 years.
P.s. I would like an apple t.v. I bet they are going to revolutionize the interactive experience.