Apple TV/PS Audio DAC

[Jason Lopez]

I'm currently using an Apple TV (hard drive model) as a music server in a two channel music only system. It's paired up with a PS Audio Digital Link lll Dac and I'm using a NAD M3 integrated amp to drive Phase Tech PC 9.1 towers. Is there something that can go between the Apple TV and the DAC that would improve the sound...or am I all tweaked out?

Jason.

 

[jinjuku]

The only thing going between the Apple TV and the DAC is a cable. If you are using a co-ax you could try a TOSLink.

If you are going RCA to the AMP you could try XLR.

I guess my main concern is that (IMHO) you purchased too much amp and not enough speaker if you think you are missing something.

That is going on the assumption that if you paid a fair market price for amp and speakers you went about it backwards.

So that begs the question: Do you think you are missing something? I don't even know what sampling rates and resolutions the Apple TV is bit-perfect through. That would be another question to answer. Also what format is your music stored in? Is it loss less?

 

[Jason Lopez]

Thanks for the input. I am using a high quality Toslink cable between the two. Some of my files are Apple Lossless and some are 256 Kbps. Not a huge difference between the two. My DAC upsamples to 192kHz. The Apple Tv also has a USB connection. I was wondering about products like the one below. Sounds like you put it before the DAC. Do you see any advantage as to what i'm doing now?

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=STU2

Jason.

 

[jinjuku]

Thanks for the input. I am using a high quality Toslink cable between the two. Some of my files are Apple Lossless and some are 256 Kbps. Not a huge difference between the two. My DAC upsamples to 192kHz. The Apple Tv also has a USB connection. I was wondering about products like the one below. Sounds like you put it before the DAC. Do you see any advantage as to what i'm doing now?

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=STU2

Jason.

Lol. I just read up on it (especially the Tenor TE7022l). It's a 24bit / 96Khz USB to S/PDIF bridge. It looks like a piece of $20 **** all dressed up. All for $350

This unit is meant to feed a DAC that doesn't have TOSLink nor USB (read much older DAC's).

In my first post I intimated that when it is all said and done you have too much amp and not enough speaker. I am building a set of Mission Statements that commercially would be in the $7-10K range, all driven with a $200 Parasound amp (purchased used).

In a perfect world I would tell you to sell your speakers, sell your amp take the resultant $4-4.5K and reformulate your 2.0 setup. Spend maybe $300 on an amp and the rest on speakers. Realistically that is where you will see your best improvement. There is no other way that I can see you improving your setup.

 

[yioryos]

You could use a de-jitter box like the Genesis digital lens.

 

[jinjuku]

You could use a de-jitter box like the Genesis digital lens.

Groan... You guys are killing me. Look any decent DAC is going to have a jitter buffer. No need for an external buffer or clock. Hell my VOIP phone system has a jitter buffer for christs sake.

I never understood the 'audiophile' mentality where they will spend as much money or more on the discrete electronics and amplification than they will the one thing that ACTUALLY produces sound: The speaker. I know this because every time I see their parts list they have some middling decent speaker.

Remember jitter is a POSSIBILITY not a CERTAINTY. It will happen at sometime, just not all the time.

 

[yioryos]

Groan... You guys are killing me. Look any decent DAC is going to have a jitter buffer. No need for an external buffer or clock. Hell my VOIP phone system has a jitter buffer for christs sake.

I never understood the 'audiophile' mentality where they will spend as much money or more on the discrete electronics and amplification than they will the one thing that ACTUALLY produces sound: The speaker. I know this because every time I see their parts list they have some middling decent speaker.

Remember jitter is a POSSIBILITY not a CERTAINTY. It will happen at sometime, just not all the time.

Well I got two Genesis digital lenses as well as two Sonic
Frontier ultrajitterbugs,by far the digital lenses are better .The one digital lens is used between a Mark Levinson 31 cd transport and Mark Levinson #35 dac and to my ears it does make a difference and adds more presence to the music.The other lens is between Sonic Frontiers SFT-1 and SFD2MK2 .I haven't used a lens on my apple tv yet but did use it between the Wadia itransport with classic ipod 120gb and one of my dacs with not so great results.
Best regards
George

 

[jinjuku]

Well I got two Genesis digital lenses as well as two Sonic
Frontier ultrajitterbugs,by far the digital lenses are better .The one digital lens is used between a Mark Levinson 31 cd transport and Mark Levinson #35 dac and to my ears it does make a difference and adds more presence to the music.The other lens is between Sonic Frontiers SFT-1 and SFD2MK2 .I haven't used a lens on my apple tv yet but did use it between the Wadia itransport with classic ipod 120gb and one of my dacs with not so great results.
Best regards
George

I would agree that introducing almost any component could make a difference in sound. If you think it's an improvement that's great. Sometimes you have to play. But the bottom line is the OP has a damn nice DAC.

And I believe my original point stands that it is ultimately about the speakers. I still don't get someone pairing a $1k or $2k DAC with a $3K amp to drive ~$2k worth of speakers. Not sure what you are running speaker wise.

All I know is I would put my $200 Parasound with a Behringer DCX and some $5500 speakers vs a $1K DAC with $3K amp and $2500 in speakers. The source being the same between both along with IC's.

 

[jinjuku]

I did some googling on the Genesis Digital Lens. I found this particularly interesting from Stereophile (note this isn't any accredited source but backs up what I am saying).

I believe that the two reproductions would sound identical. Because the memory's output clock bears absolutely no relationship to the transport's clock, the sound would take on the characteristics of the memory's output clocking circuitry. Any jitter in the transport and the digital cable driving the memory would be completely removed from the digital audio signal. [I have performed a similar experiment, storing the datastreams from nominally identical but different-sounding discs on a large computer hard-drive. When the two sets of data are played back from the hard drive, they now sound the same.—Ed.]

That's the theory behind the new Digital Lens from Genesis Technologies. Designed by Paul McGowan, the Digital Lens uses not an hour's worth of memory, but a few seconds—long enough to isolate your digital processor from any jitter or speed inconsistencies in your transport and let you listen to CDs in real-time. This is why Genesis Technologies calls the Digital Lens a jitter eliminator rather than a jitter-reduction device.

Jitter buffer my friends. Jitter checks in but it doesn't check out. And you don't need a Genesis Digital Lens at $1800 (in 1996)

 

[yioryos]

I would agree that introducing almost any component could make a difference in sound. If you think it's an improvement that's great. Sometimes you have to play. But the bottom line is the OP has a damn nice DAC.

And I believe my original point stands that it is ultimately about the speakers. I still don't get someone pairing a $1k or $2k DAC with a $3K amp to drive ~$2k worth of speakers. Not sure what you are running speaker wise.

All I know is I would put my $200 Parasound with a Behringer DCX and some $5500 speakers vs a $1K DAC with $3K amp and $2500 in speakers. The source being the same between both along with IC's.

Well ,regarding your interest in what kind of speakers I run,I got several ,my first pair was the JBL L8 that now is in a home theater set-up along the Velodyne uld18 series2,then I got the Mission 753 that now serve duties in a second audio system,my main pair at the moment is the Aerial acoustics 10t bi- amplified with Rogue audio Zeus on bass and two monoblocks Rogue audio M-150 on mids/highs. On occasions I rotate my gear and use my Mark Levinson 27.5 amp to drive the speakers ,I am looking for a nice second 27.5 to buy so I can bi-amp.Pre-amp I use the Rogue Magnum 99 with the Rogue gear and the ARC LS-3B with the ML 27.5.Speaker cables are the PS AUDIO and power conditioning from Tice powerblocks/titans on source equipment only.IC's are mostly Kimber.A lot of people have used the digital lens in the path with positive results .
Regards
George

 

[jinjuku]

Well ,regarding your interest in what kind of speakers I run,I got several ,my first pair was the JBL L8 that now is in a home theater set-up along the Velodyne uld18 series2,then I got the Mission 753 that now serve duties in a second audio system,my main pair at the moment is the Aerial acoustics 10t bi- amplified with Rogue audio Zeus on bass and two monoblocks Rogue audio M-150 on mids/highs. On occasions I rotate my gear and use my Mark Levinson 27.5 amp to drive the speakers ,I am looking for a nice second 27.5 to buy so I can bi-amp.Pre-amp I use the Rogue Magnum 99 with the Rogue gear and the ARC LS-3B with the ML 27.5.Speaker cables are the PS AUDIO and power conditioning from Tice powerblocks/titans on source equipment only.IC's are mostly Kimber.A lot of people have used the digital lens in the path with positive results .
Regards
George

So let me get this straight. The Aerials go for ~$6K market. And you are driving them with $4k of amp? Sorry I just don't get that mentality assuming that the Aerials aren't the end all of speakers regardless of price. Again way to much amp and not enough speaker considering the $10K involved. But if you like it that is fine. Just not my preferred approach.

I still say you would have a better sonic package with $9K of speaker and $1K of Rotel/B&K/Adcom/ATI/Parasound etc...

I'm sure that the Genesis Digital Lens makes a difference because your digital sources could be at fault.

I have been running a computer based source Since 98'.

 

[yioryos]

So let me get this straight. The Aerials go for ~$6K market. And you are driving them with $4k of amp? Sorry I just don't get that mentality assuming that the Aerials aren't the end all of speakers regardless of price. Again way to much amp and not enough speaker considering the $10K involved. But if you like it that is fine. Just not my preferred approach.

I still say you would have a better sonic package with $9K of speaker and $1K of Rotel/B&K/Adcom/ATI/Parasound etc...

I'm sure that the Genesis Digital Lens makes a difference because your digital sources could be at fault.

I have been running a computer based source Since 98'.

Well I guess you right my digital front is faulty.I will need an extra digital lens then.
Regards
George

 

[jinjuku]

Well I guess you right my digital front is faulty.I will need an extra digital lens then.
Regards
George

Make sure and spend $1800 for each digital source you have

 

[jinjuku]

As a follow up:

Check out the Behringer src2496. One key feature:

"High-precision quartz clock generator removes jitter and corrects off-tune, incorrect sample rates. All for around $170.

So even if you want to stick with an old school transport (CDP) you can still re-clock and get what is called 'house-sync'.

Sorry but the drive by nature of a presumed 'Golden Eared' audio snob in this thread just never sat well with me. It's that mentality of purchasing really expensive, esoteric gear to solve MUNDANE everyday engineering problems that really piss me off. Especially when you see the $$ distribution they have across their components and they don't even realize they did it azz-backwards.