Any advice on a sub ($250 range) ???

[robzr]

<font color='#000000'>I'm interested in getting a decent sub for my system. &nbsp;I'd like
to spend $200-300 ish, but I would consider spending a little
more if it were really well worth it. &nbsp;I use my stereo system
for both music (punk, rock'n'roll, a tiny bit of electronic,
NPR), as well as 5.1 Home Theater. &nbsp;Music is a higher priority
for me vs. home theater, but I don't want to completely
disregard theater. &nbsp;Here is my setup: &nbsp;

JVC RX-DV31 100w x 5 Receiver/DVD (nothin special but I dig it)
Fluance SX-HTB Speaker System
http://fluance.com/fluan5speaks.html
&nbsp;- 2x 6.5&quot; Driver + 1&quot; Tweeter Fronts
&nbsp;- 2x 4&quot; Driver + 1&quot; Tweeter Center
&nbsp;- 4&quot; Driver + 1&quot; Tweeter Rears
I'll be using this setup in a medium sized room.

For music I really only use the fronts... &nbsp;I got the Fluances a
couple weeks ago and I'm quite happy with them, but they
definately need a sub to round them out. &nbsp;I've demo'd a few
subs and done some research on the net. &nbsp;I think given my
needs &amp; price range, a single 12&quot; or single/double 10&quot; would
probably be best; I'm leaning towards the single 12&quot; after
demo'ing MTX's offerings in both sizes - the 12&quot; felt a little
more full and subtle, and went a little lower. &nbsp;However, I'm
not sure how significant the size is when it comes to
comparing various brands. &nbsp;Here's some sub's I've considered,
I'd like to hear any opinions on these or any others:

MTX SW2 - 12&quot; w/ ports (tried it, it sounded decent)
MTX SW1212 - 200w 12&quot; Active + 12&quot; Passive Radiator
Sony SA-WX700 - 250w 2x 10&quot;

Rob</font>

 

[austinbirdman]

<font color='#000000'>If you can find one that plays music well for less than $300, a) great work, b) share the info. I am not a sub-lover, so in my own experience it's hard to find any sub that works well for music. However, even among sub-lovers, the general consensus is that the lowest-priced musical subs start at $400 -- those would be the Hsu STF-2 ($399), VTF-2 ($449), and SVS powered series, which start around $449. Some people swear by the higher-end Yamaha subs as well, which start around $449. And you can build some nice subs via the kits on the Parts Express Website, if that's something you're into -- cost about $400. You will get advice from people favoring less expensive subs. They may be absolutely right - you'll have to listen to know. If you read their reviews/recommendations in depth, from my experience you'll discover what they really like is either the bass-thumping experience one can get driving through high school parking lots and listening to the car stereo systems, on steroids, or HT bass, or maybe just the kind of wall thumping, highly localizable bass one gets from a booze system ... the kind of bass you can point to as you try to explain to yourself and others why you just dropped a load on these plastic pieces of (deleted word - reference to booze, not subwoofers). (By the way, I tried to write B@se, the name of a well-known mass market speaker manufacturer, but there's some filter on this Web system that turns the word &quot;B@se&quot; into &quot;booze&quot; -- I am not kidding, this forum won't let you spell the company's name correctly. What kind of paranoid lawyers made this happen?)

IMHO demo the Hsu, SVS and/or high-end Yamahas. If you aren't sold or can't afford them, then skip the sub for music and just spring for an inexpensive Sony or Yamaha or used sub for HT-only. Dayton sells a very very reasonably priced entry-level sub at the Parts Express Website costing only $149 -- not for music, but that's a more expensive proposition.

Birdman</font>

 

[robzr]

<font color='#000000'>Hey Birdman,

I didn't realize that there was such a difference between
HT &amp; Music for subwoofer choice. &nbsp;Music really is my main
priority, so I'm not interested in getting something that
would be only really suitable for HT. &nbsp;I'm also not interested
in a boomy, muddy sounding sub. &nbsp;If it takes a little more
cash to get something that I can grow into and enjoy for
years, then I'd rather do that - I've bought &amp; rebought
enough stuff over the years to realize that's the expensive
way of doing it.

The SVS cylindrical powered subs start at $550 which
would be a pretty big reach for me. &nbsp;The HSU subs look
interesting, $425-450 shipped for the STF-2 &amp; VTF-2
would be doable. &nbsp;After checking out a thread on another
forum:

http://forums.smr-forums.com:8080/read?1303,4

It looks like the Adire brand received a mention as well, with
its $400 Rava. &nbsp;Are you familiar with this brand/sub? &nbsp;Sounds
interesting, 12&quot;, 250w, sealed:

http://www.adireaudio.com/home_au....ava.htm

There's a Tweeter Center by me in Chicago, I'll drop them a
visit to see what they have, they might have some Yamahas.
Any idea where I could find Hsus?

Rob</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>You can get a powered NHT SW10ii from Yawa for $499. You will get a full warranty and these people are great. This is a real store, not a grey market dealer. The 10 should be more snappy and less boomy than a 12. I love my 12. Also, positioning, phase control, and just some good time spent with a sub can take care of the boom.  

</font>

 

[austinbirdman]

<font color='#000000'>Ditto what Zumbo said per general advice esp. positioning. And I have heard good things about the Adire you mentioned, but have never heard one.

I own a Hsu STF-2 and it's really a fine sub -- no complaints. I'm just not big on subs for music -- and my receiver does not have variable crossover settings or the ability to remember distinct settings for music vs. HT. If it had those abilities, I'd be using the sub for music too, but crossed really low, about 50 Hz or below, on music, vs. 80 Hz or so on all speakers including floorstanders for HT.

Among Hsu subs, the Hsu STF-2 is the one to get right now, because it's essentially the VFT-2 minus the Variable (&quot;V&quot tuning, however the tuning on the STF is set where most people place it anyway. That said, the VTF-2 appears to have a classier amp (even though it's 50 watts less per channel). And with Hsu unveiling some new stuff soon I believe you might see the VTF-2s come down around $399 - just a wild guess.

I'm sure all the other models mentioned on these posts would be great as well - but you'll have to talk to people who've heard them, and be ready to try them out at home with lots of positioning experiments.

Bman</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>The Hsu Research TN1220HO Passive Subwoofer is being sold on Ebay for a fixed price of $325. &nbsp;

Aperion Audio S-10
http://www.cheaphometheater.com/Aperion....tem.htm

Sony SA-WM40
http://www.cheaphometheater.com/sony-sawm40.htm

Energy Take S8.2
http://att.com.com/Energy_Take_S8_2/4505-6467_7-20814732.html

Polk PSW250
http://www.polkaudio.com/home/products.php?category=7&amp;speaker=51

Energy XL-8
http://www.liquidtheater.com/editorials/65

BK XLS 200
http://www.bkelec.com/special/sp5.htm

Velodyne CHT-10 (or CHT-8) got very good reviews from Audioreview.com and Amazon.com
http://www.hometheatermag.com/subwoofers/177/

What to look for in a Budget subwoofer:
http://www.hometheatersound.com/features/cinemacynergy/cc_20021101.htm



Hope this helps.</font>

 

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#8D38C9'>Yamaha makes some pretty decent subs in the under $300 range, including one for about $175 that lots of guys are raving.

Personally I look for the same thing in a sub whether it's used for music or movies- I want depth and extention, accuracy and power. &nbsp;No extra &quot;boom&quot; or &quot;oomph&quot; for my movies, please.

You could go with the cheap Yamaha and the cheapest Behringer Parametric EQ and still be around $225-250.</font>

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

<font color='#000000'>Believe it or not, I have heard from reputable people that an inexpensive Parts Express Dayton sub (not a kit) for about $129 is quite good (don't have the part #, can't find my catalog!). I know, I know...sounds too good to be true. It was on sale for even less recently and I was sorely tempted to try it, but we're watching our pennies these days (well, my wife is!).

If that's too much of a leap of faith, then I'll repeat my mantra: buy used! You can get just about any of the subs mentioned above on the secondhand market -- even very late models -- because there are lots of compulsive gear-churners out there. Good way to get something you otherwise couldn't afford. See audiogon.com for starters.</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>Found a NHT SW10ii on ebay for $360. I would check this out!</font>

 

[robzr]

<font color='#000000'>Hey guys, I ended up going with the Adire Rava. &nbsp;I'm really
pleased with the result. &nbsp; Nice build quality, and it sounds
awesome. &nbsp;Hits real low and sounds very nice. &nbsp;With my
reciever (100rms x 5 jvc) at 0 db sub gain and my sub at about
2/3 level, it's a good level. &nbsp;For theater I can crank up the bass
a bit and it hits QUITE hard. &nbsp;My room is 17' x 15' and it fills
it up very nicely. &nbsp;

I appreciated all the advice &amp; info from you folks, thanks for
taking the time.

Now I'm setting up 14 guage speaker wire everywhere and
I have to track down a nice 25' subwoofer cable. &nbsp;I'd
appreciate any advice on that one - looks easy to spend
$50+ on one, but I wonder how necessary that is ?

Rob</font>

 

[RX-V2400]

<font color='#000000'>I'm abit disturbed by your quote that your sub &quot;sound nice&quot;. I hope you don't mean you can hear it. Suns should add power at the depths but be transparent, unless you use is movies and &quot;WOW&quot; only.</font>

 

[robzr]

<font color='#000000'>Heya RX,

I wouldn't say I &quot;can hear it&quot; like I can with the ones @ best
buy when you crank them up and they kind of create their
own brand new musical instrument out of the blue (the
muddy sounding subwoofer instrument). &nbsp;But when I listen to
music (I crossed it @ 80 on my amp btw), everything
just &quot;sounds better&quot; and has more depth. &nbsp;I played
some &quot;bass music&quot; - the closest thing I have is some KMFDM,
&amp; The Orb. &nbsp;It sounds very detailed, and the deep bass
instruments sound much higher quality and more crisp than I
ever realized they were before - I always assumed that down
low, the instruments just didn't have that much detail. &nbsp;On
this sub, they sound just like they do on the mains; lots of
detail. &nbsp;Oh, and now I know why y'all mean when you
say &quot;feel the bass, not hear it&quot;. &nbsp;Definately cool stuff.


When I first tried it, I had it running on a 12' monster cable
RCA. &nbsp;Now I have two 12' cheaper RCA's linked together with
a male-to-male. &nbsp;The cables &amp; splitter are all Target quality
(is that an oxymoron?). &nbsp;When I get the final, permenant
location of the sub figured out, I'm going to spring for a nice
sub cable. &nbsp;Got any recommendations on a brand that won't
cost an arm &amp; a leg?

Rob</font>

 

[mustang_steve]

<font color='#000000'>Some music I use for testing a sub.

My critques are extension, accuracy, and how gracefully it can deal with being overdriven. &nbsp;I like small subs, so that does matter since smalelr subs can be driven quite hard at modestly loud levels. &nbsp;I use this same criteria with car subwoofers as well.

Hammerfall...yeah it's not exactly great music, but their drums have a nice tight slam to them that can really get a sub moving.

Any orchestral peice form Grieg...excellent low end, and easy to critiques as well.

Naughty by Nature....their album IIcons...insane levels of bass, even by rap standards...not bass disc level, but up there. &nbsp;If a sub is running borderline on hammerfall, this disc will let you know for sure, and if the sub could cry....it probably would right about now.

Just to say I have, I also give it a round from my MDFMK CD (KMFDM's quasi-breakup disc). &nbsp;Has strong bass, and if the sub is acting up, or doesn't match well with the speakers, I can usually tell easily with this disc.</font>

 

[Josh784]

<font color='#000000'>Those of you who don't like using subs for music, what are you opinions on using subs with speakers such as Axiom's M2i's, which don't have the low-range extention.</font>

 

[austinbirdman]

<font color='#000000'>I think it's a good idea (using subs for music with satellites). Though I prefer the floorstander route, a well arranged sub-sat combo can be fantastic -- not least because you can enjoy superb clarity and pinpoint imaging from nice satellites or bookshelves, such as the Axiom M2i or M22i, Monitor Audio Silver series, Ascend Acoustics bookshelves, and any number of other great, accurate bookshelves.

The sub-sat routes gets a justifiably bad name because of the prevalence of cheap, plastic subs that &quot;rumble&quot; enough to excite teenage boys while destroying all musical coherence, a travesty compounded by small tinny speakers that can't even reach the absurdly high cross-overs of these newspaper-ad-fodder systems. Avoid this cheap and heavily marketed route and you'll be fine

If you're going for a quality sub-sat combo, then it's especially worthwhile to spend the money not spent on mains on a good, musical sub, such as the HSUs or SVSs. And it's also worthwhile to get a sub with upgrade paths in mind -- meaning don't get a small sub just because you may have small speakers. Get a 10&quot;-er and expect to pay around $400 or more, for something that (like the Hsu STF-2) gets down around 25 Hz +/- 2dB.

Also, as with any main speaker or sub-sat configuration, pay lots of attention to placement, experiment a lot, and set your room up nicely.

As a side benefit, when you go the sub-sat route, then the bass management powers of your receiver are less critical -- meaning you can survive more easily without variable LFE. I'd still want a variable LFE receiver or power set-up, however -- you can get lots of advice from the Axiom site on setup.

Another great thing about the M2is is you can always retain them as rear speakers in a 5.1 music setup and they'll match M22s or M60s, should you add those as mains later.

Birdman</font>

 

[aarond]

<font color='#000000'>robzr
try bluejeanscable.com you can get a nice 25ft sub cable for about $25.00</font>