Another Pro Logic II Question

J

Jedi2016

Full Audioholic
Heya, folks. :)

I asked a different question once before, primarily about hookups and so on.. this time it's settings. :)

What are the actual difference between Pro Logic II "Movie" and Pro Logic II "Music"? (Besides the obvious fact that one is made for movies, and the other for music).

Specifically, this is in regards to video games. My DVDs all use Dolby Digital/DTS, and my VHS collection is just collecting.. dust. So video games are the only time I use the Pro Logic II settings on my reciever (Sony STR-K750P, from the HT-DDW750 home theater set).

Dolby's site, and a few other places I've looked, recommend using the "Movie" mode to decode the game's PLII audio (my reciever lacks a "Game" mode). This mode has an upside and a downside.. The upside, of course, is that it gives me a full range of sound from all five speakers. The downside is that I seem to lose a lot of the bass, it sounds somewhat "tinny" compared to normal stereo. Here's my theory:

With a normal stereo signal, it seems that the reciever automatically shifts the low-end audio from the left/right channels to the subwoofer, so you get nice "deep" sound, even without a dedicated LFE channel. It almost seems that, in PLII "Movie", it's doing the same thing.. pulling low-end from the left/right channels and sending it to the subwoofer. But it seems to be ignoring the center and surround channels as a possible "source" of low-end audio. So there's still some bass, just not as much as there was.

Now, PLII "Music" mode seems to recify this.. the sound seems just as deep as normal stereo, but spread out over all the speakers. But I think there's a downside here, too.. the audio doesn't seem quite as immersive as it did, like it's more just "spreading out" the sound rather than properly splitting it off where it needs to be (which seems likely, considering this is what it would do with a music CD).

Is this actually what it's doing? Is PLII "Music" still decoding the incoming PLII signal properly, or is it ignoring the encoding and just doing a "best-guess" since music signals don't have PLII encoding?

Basically, I'm just trying to figure out a way to get as much "oomph" out of PLII in video games as I do in stereo signals and DD/DTS movies. But I don't want the lose the accuracy of the sound field, either, I'd like all the sounds to stay where they're supposed to be, ya know?

On a side note, I've found that the audio from my PS2, even though it's digital (optical) is still only an analog PCM 48KHz stereo signal. My reciever doesn't recognize anything about the signal (no digital "marker", or whatever it's called, to identify what it is), which I think may be causing some of these problems, since I'm having to "force" it into PLII decoding mode. Normally, the PS2 input is set to "AFD AUTO", where it creates a simple stereo signal, even with PLII-encoded games (except for the occasional DD5.1 movie or cutscene, which it recognizes and switches over, sounds lovely). With PLII games, I have to manually push the AFD button on the remote to switch it over to "PLII MOV" mode. My DVD input (coax) doesn't have this problem, as it's a purely digital signal, so stereo remains stereo (older films), and it can recognize PLII encoding (Firefly, for example, or most DVD menus) and switch over automatically (probably because even stereo signals on DVD are encoded in Dolby Digital, and they have the "marker").

Anyway.. any help would be hot. :) I'll be trying to do some tests this afternoon with "PLII MUS" and games, but it's difficult to find the right parts of games that have a full-bore surround field where I can isolate noises from different speakers. But I'll try. :)

TIA!
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
Jedi2016 said:
What are the actual difference between Pro Logic II "Movie" and Pro Logic II "Music"? (Besides the obvious fact that one is made for movies, and the other for music).
They both convert 2 channel analog, digital (PCM), or Dolby Digital signals to 5.1. The Music mode has user adjustable parameters (Panorama, Dimension, Center Width) whereas the Movie mode does not. Panorama wraps some of the L/R signal into the surrounds. The Dimension setting lets you move the sound of the center channel forward or backwards. Center Width controls how much info is sent to the center - as you increase it, less signal is sent to the center and more to the L/R, widening the stereo image and reducing the dominance of the center.

The Movie vs Music decoders are slightly different and the Dolby site does explain the technical differences. Movie mode does emphasize the center more than the L/R or surrounds. Music mode allows you to customize that with its configurable parameters.

Jedi2016 said:
Dolby's site, and a few other places I've looked, recommend using the "Movie" mode to decode the game's PLII audio (my reciever lacks a "Game" mode). The downside is that I seem to lose a lot of the bass, it sounds somewhat "tinny" compared to normal stereo.
The decoders do alter the signal in slightly different ways. Movie is meant to be the way it is heard in a movie theater, Music gives you more control over the routing, and Game mode emphasises the surrounds more than the other modes. This is for non DD 5.1 signals - when creating the surround mix from analog, PCM, or DD 2.0; if it is DD 5.1 then all the information about what goes where is already in the bit stream.


Jedi2016 said:
On a side note, I've found that the audio from my PS2, even though it's digital (optical) is still only an analog PCM 48KHz stereo signal. My reciever doesn't recognize anything about the signal (no digital "marker", or whatever it's called, to identify what it is), which I think may be causing some of these problems, since I'm having to "force" it into PLII decoding mode. Normally, the PS2 input is set to "AFD AUTO", where it creates a simple stereo signal, even with PLII-encoded games (except for the occasional DD5.1 movie or cutscene, which it recognizes and switches over, sounds lovely). With PLII games, I have to manually push the AFD button on the remote to switch it over to "PLII MOV" mode.
PCM and analog are not the same thing. PCM is digital (it's the format of a CD, although at 44.1 kHZ). If the signal is PCM, then the decoder does its 'intelligent guessing' to convert the signal to 5.1 just as if the signal were analog. As you've noticed there are subtle differences in the way each decoder does this.

The AFD auto setting (Sony's trademarked name for the same thing that all modern receivers do) doesn't create anything. It simply detects the format of the input signal to determine which outputs to use. If the signal is digital (DD, DTS, PCM) it routes it to the digital outs. If it is analog, it routes it to the analog outs.

Nearly all receivers remember the last setting for surround mode. For example, I use PLII Music for most everything. My receiver switches to PLII Music when the signal is PCM, DD 2.0, or analog. If it is DD 5.1, it switches to Dolby Digital. If you have to manually switch to PLII Movie every time, then either that receiver doesn't remember it should use PLII Movie for this type of signal or you haven't set a setting in the setup menu that specifies the preferred setting.

Also remember that the PS/2 has to be told to output digital signals. If the menu is set to output analog signals, then any DD/DTS/PCM tracks will be converted to analog. If the signal was originally DD/DTS, the 5.1 or more channels will be downmixed to 2 channel analog and the decoder will be back to creating a surround mix on its own.
 
J

Jedi2016

Full Audioholic
It's getting a digital signal.. it's all turned on, and the little "OPT" light on my reciever is on.

I know what you mean about switching to PLII.. I was referring to having to "force" it into PLII, that the "Auto" mode doesn't detect a PLII signal. If I leave it set on PLII, it'll remember it, and be there every time I turn the system on, and will still automatically switch to DD/DTS/Whatever if it detects it.

I did some testing with it yesterday, and in Music mode I do get a lot of the "oomph" back that I was missing in Movie mode. It's just hard to tell if the sounds are still going to the right place. I'm pretty sure they are, and that'll do for now.
 
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