Another Paradigm sub 12 or Rythmik E15

[kyoshozx]

I currently have paradigm sub 12, it's a nice sub but I am looking to add another sub.

I was thinking of adding a rythmik E15, would this not be recommended? Should I just add another paradigm sub 12 instead?

 

[KEW]

Everything I have read suggests that you are best off to have matching subs if you plan to run them in the same system.
What is pricing on the new Sub12?
Unlike some companies, Paradigm does make a decent sub, but the price is ridiculous if you compare it with offerings from Rythmik (or SVS, Hsu, etc.).
If you are willing to sell your current Sub12, you may well come out better buying two 15" Rythmiks. (it looks like you could expect to get around $1100 for your sub on Audiogon).
How big is your room (including any adjacent rooms that are open to it)? We need cu. ft. so the height of the ceiling matters!
How much HT vs. music do you listen to?
What speakers do you play your sub(s) with and what is the crossover point?

OTOH, if you have the money and are not too concerned about increasing SPL in your room, a pair of Paradigms will sound very fine. They are nice looking and will give great SQ as long as you do not push them too hard.

 

[aces high]

Everything I have read suggests that you are best off to have matching subs if you plan to run them in the same system.
What is pricing on the new Sub12?
Unlike some companies, Paradigm does make a decent sub, but the price is ridiculous if you compare it with offerings from Rythmik (or SVS, Hsu, etc.).
If you are willing to sell your current Sub12, you may well come out better buying two 15" Rythmiks. (it looks like you could expect to get around $1100 for your sub on Audiogon).
How big is your room (including any adjacent rooms that are open to it)? We need cu. ft. so the height of the ceiling matters!
How much HT vs. music do you listen to?
What speakers do you play your sub(s) with and what is the crossover point?

OTOH, if you have the money and are not too concerned about increasing SPL in your room, a pair of Paradigms will sound very fine. They are nice looking and will give great SQ as long as you do not push them too hard.

Why do you think pushing them hard would degrade the SQ? Rythmik's are not known for being a high spl sub and I'm just wondering how you came to the conclusion that the Paradigm wouldn't do well if pushed hard. Have you heard the Paradigm before?

 

[cantonguy]

Why do you think pushing them hard would degrade the SQ? Rythmik's are not known for being a high spl sub and I'm just wondering how you came to the conclusion that the Paradigm wouldn't do well if pushed hard. Have you heard the Paradigm before?

What makes you say that they are not a high SPL sub? They play well over reference.

 

[KEW]

Why do you think pushing them hard would degrade the SQ? Rythmik's are not known for being a high spl sub and I'm just wondering how you came to the conclusion that the Paradigm wouldn't do well if pushed hard. Have you heard the Paradigm before?

To specifically answer your question - I am mainly thinking of this guys disappointment with his new Sub12:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=786459&postcount=19

However, your point about high SPL is valid. I do not know that the Rythmik can produce the same or greater SPL than the Paradigm. Both are sealed. The Rythmik is larger, but the Paradigm puts out more watts. Not knowing the efficiency of the drivers leaves this as a question mark.

Unfortunately, the Paradigm will embarrass itself if pushed hard because it does not appear to have a means to limit the signal before it bottoms out the driver.
The Rythmic's servo system will prevent bottoming out and "clapping" as explained in the following review (BD is the man behind Rythmik):
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_2/diy-14-rythmik-directservo-subwoofer-4-2004.html

CM- So, then when the voice coil goes beyond the gap, the impedance drops, and the current-sensing portion of the circuit provides the protection and actually backs off amplifier output beyond linear excursion, and the system is more stable because it inherently tries to keep the driver within its linear range, as opposed to trying to linearize behavior regardless whether it’s in its linear range or not. So that part of the feedback circuit protects the driver by its very nature? Then, functionally speaking, in addition to the protection from over-excursion provided by the driver suspension and mechanical stiffness of the enclosure air, you get the benefits of a smarter limiter that provides a soft kind of protection based on the most important aspect of protecting the driver-cone excursion, as opposed to typical limiters that operate on the basis of amplifier output level? That sounds smart.

BD- Yes.

From my perspective the first objective of a good sub is to never make obnoxious sounds (unless they are in the content of the recording). I'd much rather have a sub that does not go loud enough and thereby "tops out" the SPL of the bass below the SPL of the mains than one that attempts the high SPL and can tear itself up with the effort.

You may be right that the E15 won't do the job. The questions of room size, music vs HT, and speakers/crossover is to get some sense of whether the E15 (or Sub 12, for that matter) is up to the task.

The Sub 12 is a great, albeit somewhat expensive, sub if you don't push it past it's limit.

HTH!

 

[KEW]

What makes you say that they are not a high SPL sub? They play well over reference.

Traditionally Rythmik has been a "Sealed sub only" manufacturer, and I imagine this is the rationale behind Aces' post.
The FV15HP (which was recently reviewed) is, to my knowledge, the first ported sub offered by Rythmik.
That this sub is so incredibly capable is a testimony to Rythmik's design capability (and/or dedication to "getting it right")!
Certainly, the FV15HP is not lacking in SPL!

 

[aces high]

To specifically answer your question - I am mainly thinking of this guys disappointment with his new Sub12:


However, your point about high SPL is valid. I do not know that the Rythmik can produce the same or greater SPL than the Paradigm. Both are sealed. The Rythmik is larger, but the Paradigm puts out more watts. Not knowing the efficiency of the drivers leaves this as a question mark.

Unfortunately, the Paradigm will embarrass itself if pushed hard because it does not appear to have a means to limit the signal before it bottoms out the driver.
The Rythmic's servo system will prevent bottoming out and "clapping" as explained in the following review (BD is the man behind Rythmik):



From my perspective the first objective of a good sub is to never make obnoxious sounds (unless they are in the content of the recording). I'd much rather have a sub that does not go loud enough and thereby "tops out" the SPL of the bass below the SPL of the mains than one that attempts the high SPL and can tear itself up with the effort.

You may be right that the E15 won't do the job. The questions of room size, music vs HT, and speakers/crossover is to get some sense of whether the E15 (or Sub 12, for that matter) is up to the task.

The Sub 12 is a great, albeit somewhat expensive, sub if you don't push it past it's limit.

HTH!

Your right that the Paradigm subs will bottom out, my Sub 15 will bottom out if I push it really hard. The amount of material that it bottoms out on is a very small percentage though. I just thought your post needed a little more info. I'm getting ready to add a second sub and don't like the thought of spending that much money on subs and they bottom out, for the amount it will cost they better be able to handle anything I throw at them IMHO. The other side of that is I'm not keen on losing money when I sell it, but dual SubMerssive HP's are looking pretty sweet to me right now. I've never heard a Rythmik before, what I got from reading about them was they're very accurate but not spl monsters, the sealed ones anyway.

 

[cantonguy]

Your right that the Paradigm subs will bottom out, my Sub 15 will bottom out if I push it really hard. The amount of material that it bottoms out on is a very small percentage though. I just thought your post needed a little more info. I'm getting ready to add a second sub and don't like the thought of spending that much money on subs and they bottom out, for the amount it will cost they better be able to handle anything I throw at them IMHO. The other side of that is I'm not keen on losing money when I sell it, but dual SubMerssive HP's are looking pretty sweet to me right now. I've never heard a Rythmik before, what I got from reading about them was they're very accurate but not spl monsters, the sealed ones anyway.

And that is probably accurate. They can play up to reference with ease though. If the OP does not listen over that level then it shouldn't matter. If Submersives are in the mix...I'd get it. I think they are incredible looking subwoofers and from what I read, they sound just as incredible as they look.