Another fine example that embodies everything that's wrong with this country

[itschris]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/09/16-illegals-sue-arizona-rancher/

I'm not even sure where to begin. I love this country. I do. There's some things that I simply cannot get my head around... how some people can see things so different than I... where I see clear, saddening injustice and some liberal attorney, judge, advocacy group, see opportunity. When right of criminals outweigh the rights of a US citizen securing his property, there's just something wrong. I can't even begin to understand how an illegal alien can even have any legal rights in our country to bring to bear a lawsuit like this.

 

[yettitheman]

man the warpoons!

Well... anyone ready for Civil War 2?

 

[jamie2112]

Wow thats amazing that is gotten this far......

 

[Matt34]

I get my propane from that guy!

Seriously, 99% of America doesn't know how bad the border problem is, espeically for those that own property on the main trafficking routes. it's almost like a police state down here with all the Border Patrol checkpoints and unmarked law enforcement i.e. DEA, ATF, ICE etc.

 

[lsiberian]

That's crazy.

 

[darien87]

This is a tough one. The rancher certainly has a right to defend his property. But it sounds like he's taking things a little too far. I agree that the lawsuit is ridiculous, but who can say how he's treating these people when he rounds them up and holds them for the border patrol. He's definitely justified in trying to keep these people off his property, but how is this any different than being a vigilante?

It's a tough call. Sure, illegal aliens shouldn't have the same rights as a U.S. citizen, but EVERYONE has rights as a human being. That's the reason why things like the Geneva Conventions were established.

Personally, I think there are things going on in this country that are a lot worse than what this story represents.

 

[Matt34]

Personally, I think there are things going on in this country that are a lot worse than what this story represents.

Not to the folks down here. This guy was a sheriff here for a number of years and has been dealing with this problem for over a decade now. Could you imagine your ranch being destroyed by these people, things getting stolen, your house getting broken into for that long and then just standing there and do nothing? What about his rights, he is afterall the legal American citizen. I'm not aiming this at you Darien, just speaking my mind.

He's never killed one and for 10 yrs has never had a reported case brought up against him before. I hope that is looked at during this trial. Looks to me Mr. Barnett and his property have become a big enough nuance to the illegal immigrants and they are now taking advantage of our system.

To address the question about weather or not he has deep pockets, yes Barnett has some money and I'm sure he's going to need it.

Edit: for clarity

 

[MatthewB.]

Having been born in Tucson and now living in Phoenix, I can tell you that illegals are a huge burdon. They will drive without insurance and if you get hit, your SOL. They commit a large amount of crime and you as the victim have no recourse whatsoever, because the police will deport them back to Mexico and they just cross over again. A few months ago we had a police officer killed by an immigrant who had been deported twice before (for serious crimes). We have had three major hopsitals close bceasue the illegals refuse to pay their medical bills, and illegals are getting state benefits the moment they walk into our country, yet legal residents have to jump through hoops. It sickens me how much of my tax dollars are going to support illegals. I guess this ranch owner would be better off just shooting em and saying the came after me. After a few times, something tells me the illegals would find an alternate route. But then again with 22,000 acres, a body (or two) could easily come up "missing". It sickes me to know that illagls have more rights than the legal resident.

 

[itschris]

This is a tough one. The rancher certainly has a right to defend his property. But it sounds like he's taking things a little too far. I agree that the lawsuit is ridiculous, but who can say how he's treating these people when he rounds them up and holds them for the border patrol. He's definitely justified in trying to keep these people off his property, but how is this any different than being a vigilante?

It's a tough call. Sure, illegal aliens shouldn't have the same rights as a U.S. citizen, but EVERYONE has rights as a human being. That's the reason why things like the Geneva Conventions were established.

Personally, I think there are things going on in this country that are a lot worse than what this story represents.

I don't know Darien, you and I usually sit on opposite sides of the fence on political issues, but having rights as a human being does not or at least should not give you the right to walk all over me without consequence. And that's the thing... there are rules, laws, and common sense in place. People choose willingly to break and circumvent these and are suddenly shocked, mortified, or confused when bad things happen to them. It's not only true in this case, but in many cases with all sorts of things. This guy legally owns his property that he worked hard for. It may be bigger than your lot and mine, but that doesn't lesson his right to it any less.

They are illegal people doing illegal things. That fact that any criminal, let alone an illegal immigrant, whilst in the midst of a crime enjoys the same rights as you and I is just perposterous. The minute you break the law, run from the cops, etc, etc, you should immediately be reclassified to a new set of rights that are comiserate to your actions that entitle law enforcement or others to address the situation with complete impunity.

 

[mperfct]

But then again with 22,000 acres, a body (or two) could easily come up "missing".

It wouldn't surprise me in the least that there was more than 1 or 2 ranchers out there shooting first, asking questions later. Of course I'm not saying it's right, but I don't have much respect for people that try and skirt the ethical channels to get into this country and then just suck it dry. It's ridiculous that someone can sneak into this country, not pay a dime in taxes, and get better treatment than some patriotic, hard-working, tax-paying person.

America is a country for everyone, at least that's what it says on the door. I'm just asking the illegals walk through the door and wipe your feet on the mat.

 

[MatthewB.]

I loved the fact that after Jan 1, last year when it was illegal for any business to knowingly hire illegals went into effect, that there was a mas exodus of illegals and then after a review of serious crimes for 2008, they found that serious crimes fell a whooping 37% yet Mexican activists claim there is no corrallation between the two. I also like how the ones that do stay are protesting our Sheriff Joe that his illegal crime sweeps are illegal. Um how? are they not committing a crime by being in the country illegally? In fact in some countries (inlcuding Mexico mind you) that if you enter the country illegally, you are immediatly arrested and have very little human rights whatsoever. Here in America, once incarcerated you are treated the same as other inmates. Of course my solution is to plant land mines across the border and you take your chances. After a few dozen "missteps" something tells me illegal crossings would diminish. If anyone protests, they should just say, "hey we put up signs and they shouldn't have been there in the first place." then go on about your day.

 

[MatthewB.]

Although my father had a better solution, He says America is always looking for a way to get rid of nuclear waste. He says build a canal between Mexico and America, fill it with the liquid nuclear waste and if any illegal does swim the canal, if he doesnt disintegrate first, then spotting his/her glowing body in the night should be easy for border patrol.

 

[Adam]

Matthew is beginning to scare me.

 

[lsiberian]

Although my father had a better solution, He says America is always looking for a way to get rid of nuclear waste. He says build a canal between Mexico and America, fill it with the liquid nuclear waste and if any illegal does swim the canal, if he doesnt disintegrate first, then spotting his/her glowing body in the night should be easy for border patrol.

This is a really bad idea. For numerous reasons. Plus the Rio Grande is alread that bad and people swim across.

 

[darien87]

I don't know Darien, you and I usually sit on opposite sides of the fence on political issues, but having rights as a human being does not or at least should not give you the right to walk all over me without consequence. And that's the thing... there are rules, laws, and common sense in place. People choose willingly to break and circumvent these and are suddenly shocked, mortified, or confused when bad things happen to them. It's not only true in this case, but in many cases with all sorts of things. This guy legally owns his property that he worked hard for. It may be bigger than your lot and mine, but that doesn't lesson his right to it any less.

They are illegal people doing illegal things. That fact that any criminal, let alone an illegal immigrant, whilst in the midst of a crime enjoys the same rights as you and I is just perposterous. The minute you break the law, run from the cops, etc, etc, you should immediately be reclassified to a new set of rights that are comiserate to your actions that entitle law enforcement or others to address the situation with complete impunity.

I hear ya Chris. That's why I say it's a tough one. I'm sure this has been going on for years, and this guy is just fed up with it, as anyone would be. According to the story, he seems to be handling this situation pretty well. I would probably be more on the side of, "Just shoot the ****ers and be done with it." But a part of me has a certain amount of sympathy for someone that is looking for a better life.

It just sucks for him that he lives in an area where he has to deal with this crap.

 

[MatthewB.]

Adam, what will really scare you, is the fact that I'm half mexican. Of course I'm also half Irish, so that should scare any bar owner this side of the Rio Grande. And yes my mother hates my views on illegal immigrants, but she just needs to get over it.

I don't have a problem with anybody legally coming over here to make a better life for themself. But i have many many friends from other countries who are doing so legally and jumping through hoops to become a citizen and it ticks them off when anybody just walks across and they get all these benefits, while they get turned down trying to go about it legally. Here's a thought that will scare you. Illegals can immediatly get food stamps and governement assistance along with free education and healthcare. While a legal citizen has to show proof of income, two paycheck stubs and provide some form of legal ID to even be considered for any of that.

 

[TLS Guy]

I hear ya Chris. That's why I say it's a tough one. I'm sure this has been going on for years, and this guy is just fed up with it, as anyone would be. According to the story, he seems to be handling this situation pretty well. I would probably be more on the side of, "Just shoot the ****ers and be done with it." But a part of me has a certain amount of sympathy for someone that is looking for a better life.

It just sucks for him that he lives in an area where he has to deal with this crap.

Well he should not have to deal with the "crap" should he? The border should be properly defended. If we can't defend the border, then you have made the case for vigilantes.

 

[MatthewB.]

Here's something else, a year ago, colleges started accepting free tuition grants for illegals with a good GPA, yet turned down american students because there wasn't enough placement for both.

 

[Rickster71]

I wonder what would happen these people stayed in their own country and improved it, instead of bailing.
If they made the same demands of their own government, as they do ours, maybe Mexico would change and be a better place.
Basically were are inheriting a bunch of people that don't really care about either country. We're inheriting even more people with an 'Entitlement mentality.'

 

[Adam]

We're inheriting even more people with an 'Entitlement mentality.'

That's probably the biggest issue that I have right there. People that come here to take advantage of the system and expect others to make their lives easier.

I've talked about this topic on other threads, and I don't have the energy (or memory) to go into it again here. I'll say a couple of things. I have a lot of respect for people who work hard to make a better life. I have no respect for the mentality of people that think that others should work hard to give them a better life. My feelings extend to people who are both legal and illegal residents.