Amp recommendation and some related questions/discussion

[Lordhumungus]

Now that I finally have most of my system (thanks in no small part to the help from everyone on the forums), I am in the very early planning stages of possibly adding an amp and was hoping to pick the brains of those with more experience and knowledge than I have on the subject, which narrows it down to pretty much everyone

The gear in question is what is listed in my signature with the addition of probably the e56ci center channel if I can get it at a reasonable price at some point in the future. That said, I was thinking about trying to find a reasonably priced Emotiva XPA-3 to power the front 3 EMP TeKS closer to their full potential, as well as relieve some of the paranoia/OCD I seem to be having about running everything off the receiver. The plan at the moment would be to leave the rear surrounds hooked up to the receiver unless someone has a compelling reason not do this.

First question is is this amp a good match for what I am trying to do, or is there a better solution (either cost, quality, performance etc)? I'd love any alternatives as I don't know many of the amp brands to even begin looking into probable alternatives. I also see that the RMS output of the XPA-3 is rated at 200W x 3 with an 8 Ohm load. This seems to match up reasonably well to my FL/FR speakers, but since they are 6 Ohm it would exceed the RMS by a small amount, more so on the center channel which is listed at 175W RMS. Is this dangerous for the speaker since it is technically over the RMS, or is it close enough that it should be ok?

This brings me to my next series of questions. It seems like in car audio it is reasonably common for amps to be bridgeable, but this doesn't seem to be the case with HT receivers. Any idea why this is? Wouldn't this be especially useful for 7.1+ receivers where it'ss still not terribly common for people to use all of the outputs. I did read in a post somewhere that some multi-channel amps can re-route peak power between channels as necessary, do any receivers do the same thing? Is there some spec to look for that would indicate whether or not this is possible with a particular product?

Please feel free to tear me down, and re-build me with superior knowledge

 

[GranteedEV]

iisn't your room like... 900 cu ft?


I think 25wpc is enough o_o;

 

[Lordhumungus]

Yeah, my room is basically a large closet, but ignoring that fact, any suggestions? This is admittedly more about illogical want than any real world need for an amp. I'm also not in any position to buy it since I am losing my job on Tuesday, but the hypothetical never hurt anyone.

It's also possible that I will trade-up my room to a walk in closet at some point and go baller status with upwards of 1200 cu ft

 

[Lordhumungus]

Why no love? Have I gone full retard without realizing it

 

[GranteedEV]

Silence is a signal to save some cash...

Yeah, my room is basically a large closet, but ignoring that fact, any suggestions?

Crown XLS1000

I'm also not in any position to buy it since I am losing my job on Tuesday, but the hypothetical never hurt anyone.

Sorry to hear that man. Always jobs up here in Western Canada if you're 'looking.

It's also possible that I will trade-up my room to a walk in closet at some point and go baller status with upwards of 1200 cu ft

..At which point you'll get the best improvement from a pair of beast subs ;D

 

[Lordhumungus]

Thanks for the reply. I figured the lack of responses was because people didn't think it was worth it. That being said, I'm really hoping people ignore that part of the equation and focus on the specific things I was hoping to get clarification on (i.e. is it bad if the amp is slightly more powerful than the speakers max etc.)

I see that the Crown Amps are 2 channel. Since I would be looking for something (not necessarily one product, just whatever product(s) make the most sense) to drive the front 3 speakers, what would I use for the center? What's the reasoning behind this over the Emotiva? Would it exceed my quality needs or something?

On the job front, don't worry about it, I am used to it at this point. I'm a software tester and my jobs come and go like that. I still love what I do though, and I have some things possibly lined up, so overall I'm not too worried about it.

On the sub front, I need to start with one, but if I oust one of my roommates and take over her larger room, I will probably eventually get a second. If I had to guess, I'll end up with 2x FV12s, which I'm sure my cat will appreciate

 

[Lordhumungus]

 

[Alex2507]

*crickets*

is it bad if the amp is slightly more powerful than the speakers max etc

I'm going to read over your two threads to see what's up but having amps that are rated for more power than the speakers are capable of handling isn't a problem. It's done all the time and it makes for happy speaker owners.

 

[Josuah]

I think the problem is your question is too open-ended: "what amp should I buy?"

 

[Alex2507]

I also see that the RMS output of the XPA-3 is rated at 200W x 3 with an 8 Ohm load. This seems to match up reasonably well to my FL/FR speakers, but since they are 6 Ohm it would exceed the RMS by a small amount, more so on the center channel which is listed at 175W RMS. Is this dangerous for the speaker since it is technically over the RMS, or is it close enough that it should be ok?

The ratings on the speaker are for continuous power. The really high output from an amp is fleeting and it's your ears that are in danger more often than not. Speakers can take those short bursts with no ill effect and having plenty of juice there makes everything better when the volume goes up so those peaks can be as dynamic as they're intended to be.

I did read in a post somewhere that some multi-channel amps can re-route peak power between channels as necessary, do any receivers do the same thing?

The power supply in a multi channel amp can only put out so much juice to the amp sections so what one discrete channel doesn't use is available for another channel.

Getting a 2 channel amp will free up any rec'r a good bit to allow it to give the center and surrounds extra but those differences can be pretty subtle at reasonable SPL's. I saw the mention of a Crown amp. With that you have to be careful of fan noise if it has a fan (I didn't look).

Like anything else you need to determine a budget. I want to talk about this some more but because I'm on a diet I have to run out and buy turkey before the deli closes. Heaven forbid that I eat something tasty.

 

[lsiberian]

The most expensive one I can sell you.

I buy chip amps because I'm a nut. Since you seem to be fairly crazy you might check it out. The cliffs is you'll need an amp, supply and some sort of enclosure.

 

[walter duque]

Now I would recommend to have an amp that puts out twice the power of speaker recommendation. I am just playing around with an amp that puts out 500 watts x 2 with my rear surrounds and they are taking that amp like a champ at +6db and the speakers are rated at 350 watts. The more power the better, the less chance you have blowing your speakers. My center I have bi-amped with 500 watts per channel which is rated at 220 watts and no problem. Never worry about having too much power, worry about not having enough.

 

[Lordhumungus]

Now I would recommend to have an amp that puts out twice the power of speaker recommendation. I am just playing around with an amp that puts out 500 watts x 2 with my rear surrounds and they are taking that amp like a champ at +6db and the speakers are rated at 350 watts. The more power the better, the less chance you have blowing your speakers. My center I have bi-amped with 500 watts per channel which is rated at 220 watts and no problem. Never worry about having too much power, worry about not having enough.

I'm sort of embarrassed to ask this, but is this a serious response? I only ask because I don't want to be prying a tweeter out of my forehead if I am being trolled

If you are serious, can you please elaborate how having more power than recommended is safer?

I'm still interested in peoples actual amp recommendations considering the gear in question. It seems to me that a 200WPC x 3 Channel amp is where I should be, but I'm all ears if people have better specific recommendations. Please keep in mind that I have very little practical real world experience with the equipment, so I am not aware of most manufacturer options, which is the primary reason I am asking these questions. I have very little direction to even begin researching on my own.

 

[walter duque]

I'm sort of embarrassed to ask this, but is this a serious response? I only ask because I don't want to be prying a tweeter out of my forehead if I am being trolled

If you are serious, can you please elaborate how having more power than recommended is safer?

I'm still interested in peoples actual amp recommendations considering the gear in question. It seems to me that a 200WPC x 3 Channel amp is where I should be, but I'm all ears if people have better specific recommendations. Please keep in mind that I have very little practical real world experience with the equipment, so I am not aware of most manufacturer options, which is the primary reason I am asking these questions. I have very little direction to even begin researching on my own.

This is a serious response. I did blow a tweeter a few years back on new years eve. Besides 200 watts is not that much power, I would consider that good entry level power.

 

[Alex2507]

I'm sort of embarrassed to ask this, but is this a serious response? I only ask because I don't want to be prying a tweeter out of my forehead if I am being trolled

If you are serious, can you please elaborate how having more power than recommended is safer?

I'm still interested in peoples actual amp recommendations considering the gear in question. It seems to me that a 200WPC x 3 Channel amp is where I should be, but I'm all ears if people have better specific recommendations. Please keep in mind that I have very little practical real world experience with the equipment, so I am not aware of most manufacturer options, which is the primary reason I am asking these questions. I have very little direction to even begin researching on my own.

I've been to Walter's before and he's dead serious. He's crazy ... but he's serious.

Having an underpowered amp turned up too loud will result in clipping which can result in an obscene power surge/spike going to the speakers as the juice comes back on. That's the danger of underpowered amps being over driven.

You won't get trolled here. It's just not that kind of site.

Aside from the Emo I'm not sure what all is out there for entry level priced 3 channel amps but to me amps are most important for music and that's typically a 2 channel affair anyway. For an interesting and enlightened discussion on 2 channel amps give this thread a read.

 

[Lordhumungus]

Thanks for the response, that makes perfect sense. The reason I was looking for a 3 channel amp is because I figured it would be odd to feed my center a different amount of power than my L/R, especially since I am about 50/50 HT and Music.

If you guys think that may be the way to go however, I am definitely interested in your opinions. In the meantime I am going to check out the link you posted Alex.

EDIT: I listen to a lot of heavy metal, so too loud isn't in my vocabulary, much to the chagrin of my roommates.

 

[Alex2507]

I was looking for a 3 channel amp is because I figured it would be odd to feed my center a different amount of power than my L/R

Actually you do feed the center a different amount of power because it is usually of a different sensitivity than the L&R to begin with and it typically has different sized drivers so it's going to need a different amount of power no matter what to produce the same SPL as any of the other speakers.

I've seen/heard a power limited rec'r wake up by eliminating the rear surrounds of a 7.1 system. In my view the L&R are the power hungry speakers and lightening the load of a power limited rec'r by amping up the mains is a step in the right direction but word on the street is that your ears can play tricks on you so perceived improvements can very well be placebo effect. Welcome to objective audio. Some speakers absolutely sound better with amps because of their impedance curves/phase angles.

Do you listen to music in 2.1? Have you got your system set up already? Calibrated?

 

[Lordhumungus]

I'm realizing that one of the amateur mistakes I was making is the assumption that just because the amp can supply X number of watts constantly, it is, regardless of what is happening with the speaker. On further thought, this is obviously very, very wrong.

This leads me to the question of are constant/RMS watts from an amp an important measurement? Wouldn't it only come into play if you were using some sort of constant tone that was driving the speaker to use all of the available power constantly? From my understanding of lack of manufacturer standardization of peak power, that seems almost as shaky since peak may be 1 second before the amp burns itself out. Is there some median ground measuring stick, or some better way to read the available RMS/peak power information to figure out what best suits my needs?

As far as configuration, I haven't done any calibration or configuration yet, I've only hooked everything up and let 'er rip so to speak. I did this because I was originally planning to add the subwoofer much sooner than I am actually going to be able to. This will be corrected in the next week or so as I will have some spare time thanks to the layoff. I doubt I'll get any great results as it's essentially a 4.0 setup at the moment, but we'll see.

Because of the lack of setup, I haven't bothered at all to try the difference between 4.0 and 2.0 when listening to music, but I imagine when everything is said and done, I will end up running music as 2.1.

Any thoughts on if running the front L/R off an amp, and the Center and Rear L/R running off the receiver makes sense? Does it put the Center and Front L/R too far apart in power capabilities? I guess I'm really trying to figure out some basic design/setup philosophy for this kind of stuff so that I can learn to match components well (both for my specific system and in general).

 

[Lordhumungus]

Bumping one last time before I let it die.

 

[GranteedEV]

I'm realizing that one of the amateur mistakes I was making is the assumption that just because the amp can supply X number of watts constantly, it is, regardless of what is happening with the speaker. On further thought, this is obviously very, very wrong.

This leads me to the question of are constant/RMS watts from an amp an important measurement? Wouldn't it only come into play if you were using some sort of constant tone that was driving the speaker to use all of the available power constantly? From my understanding of lack of manufacturer standardization of peak power, that seems almost as shaky since peak may be 1 second before the amp burns itself out. Is there some median ground measuring stick, or some better way to read the available RMS/peak power information to figure out what best suits my needs?

As far as configuration, I haven't done any calibration or configuration yet, I've only hooked everything up and let 'er rip so to speak. I did this because I was originally planning to add the subwoofer much sooner than I am actually going to be able to. This will be corrected in the next week or so as I will have some spare time thanks to the layoff. I doubt I'll get any great results as it's essentially a 4.0 setup at the moment, but we'll see.

Because of the lack of setup, I haven't bothered at all to try the difference between 4.0 and 2.0 when listening to music, but I imagine when everything is said and done, I will end up running music as 2.1.

Any thoughts on if running the front L/R off an amp, and the Center and Rear L/R running off the receiver makes sense? Does it put the Center and Front L/R too far apart in power capabilities? I guess I'm really trying to figure out some basic design/setup philosophy for this kind of stuff so that I can learn to match components well (both for my specific system and in general).

Peak power is important but may NOT represent the nature/sustain of the audio signal. RMS power may come closer but still not fully accurate since it only assumes i think 3db or was it 6db of dynamic range.

The more conservative number is more useful as a minimum.

Getting an amp to drive your L/R mains which will have the most demand placed upon then, and letting the receiver handle the center and surrounds is a good idea.