Amp/Receiver Advice

[PENG]

There are so many options, and far too many people either side of the fence. The Yamaha RX-V579 looks pretty much the same as the RX-V679, just without as many bells and whistles for $300 less. This would be great if there was a consensus on how the thing sounded - everyone seems to have a different opinion.

Sound quality is the top priority for me but also the hardest thing to ascertain, especially when you have no experience in the AVR market. If anyone would like to just throw some model numbers at me that would be greatly appreciated, because this is getting far more complicated than I was prepared for.

In that case, you also have the option to keep the Dacmagic plus and just buy a two channel power amp and the passive speakers of your choice. If you eventually pick up an AVR, the power amp will still be useful.

 

[br??]

Thanks for all your replies!

You guys are probably sick of people asking about receivers so I'm very thankful that my thread is still active.

Would you not consider Denon and Marantz products, such as the X3100W and SR5009?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00KONGJOO/ref=sr_1_cc_1_olp?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1452955767&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=denon+x3100w&condition=new

http://www.amazon.com/Marantz-Refurbished-Network-Theater-Receiver/dp/B013X0VG2Y/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1452955893&sr=1-2&keywords=marantz+sr5009

The Yamaha is good too but I think D&M's Audyssey XT can probably do a better job with your subwoofer.

The Denon would be 40% over budget and the Marantz would be a stretch. For the record I'm not biased towards Yamaha gear, that just happens to be what I keep digging up haha. Is D&M's Audyssey XT (or just the newer receiver overall) worth the $800 AUD price increase from the old Yamaha I mentioned? Is the Yamaha going to sound worse than newer receivers in general?

In that case, you also have the option to keep the Dacmagic plus and just buy a two channel power amp and the passive speakers of your choice. If you eventually pick up an AVR, the power amp will still be useful.

This could be a good idea. I'd assume something like the Emotiva XPA-200 would do the job? However, coming in at $1,000 AUD, I have to ask - is it going to sound better than the 10-year-old RX-V757? Is this another case of economies of scale?

EDIT: It seems that some people on other websites reckon a pre/pro setup will always sound better than using an AVR. Again, is this just a lack of education or is there some truth here? The last thing I want to compromise for value is sound quality.

 

[Latent]

Reasonably good amp on that 757. No hdmi means you won't be using it for any video switching. For straight analog stereo work it should do what you need and price is not too bad. Not ideal for high res digital sources unless you use an external dac. Has 8channel analog ins that work with an external source/processor and bypass all digital stuff. Can input spdif 96khz 24bit stereo or DD/DTS 5.1 compressed sources also. Built in dacs are 192khz/24bit but they are not named brand ones like the burr brown used in later models. This model does not support easy bi-amping either.

If later you wanted to get into home theater then you would probably sell this and upgrade. But for stereo use it is a great option for the price.

 

[Latent]

This could be a good idea. I'd assume something like the Emotiva XPA-200 would do the job? However, coming in at $1,000 AUD, I have to ask - is it going to sound better than the 10-year-old RX-V757? Is this another case of economies of scale?

EDIT: It seems that some people on other websites reckon a pre/pro setup will always sound better than using an AVR. Again, is this just a lack of education or is there some truth here? The last thing I want to compromise for value is sound quality.

The dedicated power amp may sound better with the right speakers and at certain SPL's. As mentioned by PENG you can always make use of an external power amp like this in the future.

The Pre/Pro vs AVR argument is a tricky one. Pre/Pro with power amp setups have advantages of easier upgradeability and at the very high end I would say they are better but they also cost twice the price of a top of the line AVR that is 97% of the way there. For stereo there may be a lower price point where they have an advantage.

Another thing I forgot about with most AVR's is that in analog bypass mode like 'Pure Direct' for Yamaha the bass management is disabled for stereo sources which means your Sub won't work at the same time. If you sub had speaker terminal inputs you can cheat it by connecting frount speaker or B speaker terminals to it so it gets you something when analog mode engaged but this has the problem of speaker distortion feeding to the sub and I don't think your sub has these terminal anyway. Some stereo only receivers may have an analog base management option but I haven't looked into this. seems getting base management without sacrificing sound quality is not easy.

 

[PENG]

Thanks for all your replies!

You guys are probably sick of people asking about receivers so I'm very thankful that my thread is still active.



The Denon would be 40% over budget and the Marantz would be a stretch. For the record I'm not biased towards Yamaha gear, that just happens to be what I keep digging up haha. Is D&M's Audyssey XT (or just the newer receiver overall) worth the $800 AUD price increase from the old Yamaha I mentioned? Is the Yamaha going to sound worse than newer receivers in general?



This could be a good idea. I'd assume something like the Emotiva XPA-200 would do the job? However, coming in at $1,000 AUD, I have to ask - is it going to sound better than the 10-year-old RX-V757? Is this another case of economies of scale?

EDIT: It seems that some people on other websites reckon a pre/pro setup will always sound better than using an AVR. Again, is this just a lack of education or is there some truth here? The last thing I want to compromise for value is sound quality.

How about pro audio amps such as:

http://www.amazon.com/Crown-DriveCore-XLS1500-Power-Amplifier/dp/B003HZV2JS/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1453000163&sr=1-6&keywords=crown+audio

or a smaller amp such as this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Marantz-MM-7025-N1B-versterkers/dp/B005DC91MS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1453000448&sr=8-2&keywords=marantz+mm7025

 

[br??]

That Marantz is out of my price range unfortunately, and I feel like considering pro audio amps is going to open up a whole new can of worms.

Just a quick question regarding the XPA-200: at the moment my sub is connected via the RCA outs on the DAC, and the speakers via the balanced outs. With the XPA-200, would there be some sort of processing delay associated between the passive speakers and sub? I feel like this is a pretty dumb question and I'm fairly sure this isn't the case but I just want to be doubly sure because the power amp option is looking more like the way to go.

 

[Latent]

XPA-200 is a power amplifier which is analogue only. Very little delay in Analogue. The Amp in the Sub should have about the same delay anyway.

Note with the XPA-200 there is no volume or gain adjustment and it is fixed so that 1.1V outputs it full rated output and your DAC outputs from 0-2V so they should work fine together. the stereo inputs on a AVR work a little differently and are designed for a signal of 200mv for a full volume reference signal. And you normally take this 200mv signal and then adjust the speaker output with the AVR's volume control. This may work fine as you just keep your DAC at a fixed volume and use the AVR but then you may find the Sub harder to get working as you would need to drive it from the output of the AVR to get the volumes matching. And as I mentioned above if you want a pure analog output to retain your DAC audio quality end to end you will lose base management in the AVR and there is no sub output. You could connect the front pre-outs of the AVR to the SUB but most AVR's say you can't drive speakers and pre-outs for the same channel at the same time... You can hack it by using Y adapters and the multichannel inputs to connect the L/R RCA from the DAC to fronts and surround ins. Multichannel input is analog all the way and your speakers connect to front terminals and an identical stereo signal which is volume matched is output on the surround pre-outs which you connect to the Sub for Base. Bit of a messy setup as you can see. You also have the option to feed the DAC outputs a third time to the surround backs and you now can bi-amp your main speakers. The other simpler option is to keep the DAC controlling the volume and outputting direct to both the sub and the AVR (with a fixed AVR volume) and hope the supposedly 200mV stereo inputs will handle the higher voltage just fine which they should in theory if you set the volume high enough on the AVR.

If you only have the one source and want to keep your DAC a power amplifier may be easier.

 

[fmw]

That Marantz is out of my price range unfortunately, and I feel like considering pro audio amps is going to open up a whole new can of worms.

Just a quick question regarding the XPA-200: at the moment my sub is connected via the RCA outs on the DAC, and the speakers via the balanced outs. With the XPA-200, would there be some sort of processing delay associated between the passive speakers and sub? I feel like this is a pretty dumb question and I'm fairly sure this isn't the case but I just want to be doubly sure because the power amp option is looking more like the way to go.

I think this thread is simply adding to your confusion and fear. It is very unlikely that you need an accessory amplifier. Sound quality is not an issue in the 21st century. All the receiver brands you mentioned are good ones and will provide a satisfactory performance. Audyssey is popular but all of the room calibration routines will get the job done. Personally I don't like Audyssey but, as usual, I am in the minority. I recommend you buy what appeals to you and enjoy it.

 

[PENG]

I think this thread is simply adding to your confusion and fear. It is very unlikely that you need an accessory amplifier. Sound quality is not an issue in the 21st century. All the receiver brands you mentioned are good ones and will provide a satisfactory performance. Audyssey is popular but all of the room calibration routines will get the job done. Personally I don't like Audyssey but, as usual, I am in the minority. I recommend you buy what appeals to you and enjoy it.

The use of power amp is only an option for him and if we explain this clearly to him he won't be confused. It is an option because he already has the Dacmagic plus that has suitable output and volume control to drive a two channel power amp. That means if he is okay with having just one source as it is now, he can keep the DAC and get a power amp instead of an AVR.

Regarding EQ, obviously they all claim to do the same but they don't all do the same equally well. Even within Audyssey, XT32 plus Sub EQ HT is much more effective than the XT version. I have used both and plotted a lot of graphs so I know that for a fact. Harman has done some subjective (in my opinion) comparisons of several systems and the results were not surprising, not to me anyway.

http://seanolive.blogspot.ca/2009/11/subjective-and-objective-evaluation-of.html

Again, the OP is asking questions, I guess it is up to us to confuse him (unintentionally) or just provide alternatives with clear narratives.

 

[fmw]

The use of power amp is only an option for him and if we explain this clearly to him he won't be confused. It is an option because he already has the Dacmagic plus that has suitable output and volume control to drive a two channel power amp. That means if he only has one source as it is now he can keep the DAC and just get a power amp. It is up to him to choose this option or the AVR options that allows multiple sources.

As to sub EQ, obviously they all claim to do the same but they don't all do the same equally well. Even within Audyssey, XT32 plus Sub EQ HT is much more effective than the XT version. I have used both and plotted a lot of graphs so I know that for a fact. Harman has done some subjective (in my opinion) comparisons of several systems and the results were not surprising, not to me anyway.

http://seanolive.blogspot.ca/2009/11/subjective-and-objective-evaluation-of.html

Again, the OP is asking questions, I guess it is up to us to confuse him (unintentionally) or just provide alternatives with clear narratives.

You assume I was criticizing what you post. Not so. I was just advising the OP. He doesn't have the background to deal with all the "audiologica" and battling opinions. Every answer elicits more questions. Nothing wrong with that either. But I was merely suggesting that he choose some gear and get on with it. He can always add more gear later after he has some experience.

 

[PENG]

You assume I was criticizing what you post. Not so. I was just advising the OP. He doesn't have the background to deal with all the "audiologica" and battling opinions. Every answer elicits more questions. Nothing wrong with that either. But I was merely suggesting that he choose some gear and get on with it. He can always add more gear later after he has some experience.

Absolutely not, unless you are somehow super sensitive this morning. I thought it was obvious I was agreeing to you as I said it was up to us to explain things clearly to the OP. Otherwise, yes we will confuse him.

 

[br??]

Yes, you are both on the right page. While at times this thread has provided more questions than it has answers, I'm not surprised that choosing a good sound-related product for my needs is so hard. fmw is right in saying that I just need to pick something and get on with it, but at the same time I have learned a lot from this thread and appreciate everyone's help.

If anyone has any further suggestions or comments, please don't shy away from the "audiologica" too much - I make up for my lack of experience in the world of audio in other fields of science and engineering, and enjoy learning what details I can from the respectable folks on this forum.

Thanks again!

 

[fmw]

Enjoy the system. Glad we could contribute.

 

[PENG]

For bookshelf speakers have you considered the KEF LS 50 or R100? You probably can get them in Australia for reasonable price relative to that in North America. The Dacmagic plus is such a nice unit that to me is worth keeping unless you really have need for the tuner and the ability to play disc and vinyl.

The problem is that hifi components seem to cost much more in Australia so it is hard to recommend any power amps that are price competitive to the A-S701 you are considering. By the way, the R-S700 does not seem to have any digital inputs, and neither one has the USB DAC function so if you are going to sell your Dacmagic plus you need have to go with the A-S801.

 

[br??]

Yeah, it sucks. I'm stuck paying almost double for the same product, which severely limits my choices.

I did just get some great news, however - the only shop that sells Legacy in Australia is selling Studio HDs for $1,875 AUD, almost half price. I'm guessing this is a no-brainer?

I would really like to keep the Dacmagic too, but I'd also like to move my setup out of my room, as it's small and suboptimal. I did a bit more research, and while I'm here to ask about the Studio HDs, I may as well ask: Secondhand Yamaha RX-A730?

 

[PENG]

Yeah, it sucks. I'm stuck paying almost double for the same product, which severely limits my choices.

I did just get some great news, however - the only shop that sells Legacy in Australia is selling Studio HDs for $1,875 AUD, almost half price. I'm guessing this is a no-brainer?

I would really like to keep the Dacmagic too, but I'd also like to move my setup out of my room, as it's small and suboptimal. I did a bit more research, and while I'm here to ask about the Studio HDs, I may as well ask: Secondhand Yamaha RX-A730?

If you mean this http://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/legacy-studio-hd, and if they are brand new with warranty then I agree it is a no-brainer .

I am not sure about the RX-A730, used Yamaha are good because they are reliable but I don't like AVRs that have no pre-outs but that's just me. Those monitors are 4 ohm rated but they do have relatively high sensitivity so shouldn't be too hard to drive.

 

[Latent]

RX-A730 is only a couple of years old so may not get a good discount on secondhand yet for this model. The thing that often gets them to go cheaper is the lack of decent HDMI switching tech in older models but this model has all but the latest 60hz 4k tech. It is a bit on the entry level as far as connectivity with no analog multi channel inputs or any pre outs (except subwoofer). 90W power in stereo is ok but not as high as some units. Has good Burr Brown 192khz/24bit DAC's built in. Option for powered zone 2 and bi-amping is a positive as well (Studio HDs look to support bi-amping I think). Also allows you to plug in a USB hard drive or set up a DLNA media server from a NAS/computer and play 192khz FLAC files directing from the Receiver itself. You may find something like this is easier than using your dacmagic and your PC right next to it and frees you up to move the amp into a better room. You also have the option to feed either speaker cables back to your other room to power passive speakers or feed back a line level cable from zone 2 pre-outs back to your old powered monitors so you can listen in either room.