Amp/Cable observation and a question.

Y

Yamaholic

Audiophyte
This is my first post (starting a new thread) so I hope I am putting this in the proper forum.

I have been reading with intense interest the forum on the "10 biggest lies in audio." After reading the article, I began to read more of The Audio Critic online. As a longtime Stereophile/Absolute Sound reader (not a fanatic, but liked to read about the exotic equipment), I wondered if it was true that amps more or less sound alike. And do "exotic" cables (speaker and interconnect) really make an improvement worth the cost?

Just for background, I have what would be considered a good "upper middle end" system. I use a Yamaha HTR-6090 receiver, Rotel RCD-02 CD Player, a Sony DVP-N75H DVD Player, Pardigm Studio 60 v3 speakers (main), Infinity Primus 162 (2 wired in parallel for center) Infinity PS-8 subwoofer (I live in an apartment, so anything bigger would really be pushing my luck with my neighbors :D ) and a pair of Insignia speakers for my rear channels. I also have a Monster Power Powerbar 1100 surge protector/filter. Not Krell/Levinson level, but excellent sound without breaking the bank.

Before purchasing the Yamaha, I had used an Anthem PVA-2 power amplifier and Rotel RC-1070 preamplifier. I was very happy with them. I wanted to branch into home theater, so I bought the Yamaha. I'll be honest, I expected the Anthem/Rotel combo to mop the floor sonically with the "home theater quality sound" of the Yamaha. Much to my surprise, the Yamaha sounded just as good as the seperates. Quite an eye-opener. So, after reading TAC magazines online, I began to question whether I needed all of the expensive cables behind my rack.

I swapped out my Audioquest Bedrock speaker cable ($300 for an 8' pair), my Audioquest Coral interconnects ($150), Straightwire Encore ($100), you get the idea... with decent quality but generic interconnects that came with my equipment and 14 gauge stranded speaker cable from Home Depot. Again, much to my surprise, I noted no difference. My system sounded just as good as before. I think that my equipment is of high enough caliber that if there were a noticable difference, I would have heard it.

Anyway, my question is this... Have any of you tried this experiment and what were your results? I'm not trying to sway anyone for or against high end cables. I'm just curious what you might have found. I also tried running my Anthem amplifier out of thte Yamaha's front preamp outputs but found that it really offered no improvement. I will say though that this may have changed if I could really play my system LOUD. My room is only 16' by 12' by 9'. At low volumes, the amplifier (either the Yamaha or Anthem is probably only peaking out at 3-5 watts per channel tops) is probably not going to be a big factor in overall sound quality. Especially since both are very modern, high quality designs.

So again, what has been your experience with amps? I welcome any opinions on the matter.

Sorry about the long post. Thanks for sticking with it to the end. :)
Chris.
 
I

indcrimdefense

Audioholic
as for expensive cables i have tried them & compared them to what i use from rivercable & have rarely noticed a difference, & certainly not a difference that i would be willing to pay for. have tried audioquest (several), kimber & tara labs, but have not bought any w/ exception of some audioquest xlr cables i bought to use with a demo cary audio 303/300 recently as i was out of xlr cables & had credit at the dealer to pay for them. they lack the silly battery pack & were comparable in cost to what i would pay from river once i added shipping. can not tell difference at all from my river cables. can tell a difference in the soundstage using a tara labs xlr interconnect (only had 1 so the other channel was river) from pre-amp to amp recently, but it was not a significant difference & would not call it an improvement. i have noticed a difference switching from my rivercable starflex speaker cable back to monster, & prefered the river. certainly this will cause some on the forum to call me deaf, or cause some silly debate, but i did hear an improvement w/ river. have yet to find any cable, wire, interconnect etc. at any price from any manufacturer that sounded better than what i have from rivercable at substantially less money.

as for differences between amplifiers, i can at times hear differences between amplifiers. i have demoed alot of stuff at home, have spent hours upon hours at various dealers listening, and am careful to set up as close as i am able the same listening conditions. sometimes i brought an amplifier home and it made a significant & substantial improvement (cary 500 MB compared to krell ksa 2250) & you can very clearly tell the difference between the two, at times it was worse (rotel & older nakamichi amp used w/ klipsch speakers, not knocking either rotel or nak but they did not pair well w/ horn tweeters), and at times i could tell little or no difference except on big blockbuster type scenes watching a movie. i recently purchased my cary 500 MB monoblocks after a very lengthy demo last summer/fall, & then comparison shopping & price shopping. compared to the krell, soundstage has deepened & to a lesser extent widened, treble & particularly the midrange is improved, and the bass... there is simply no comparison between the bass. i have demoed alot of amps at home (b&k 125.2, nakamichi pa5, krell showcase, krell ksa 2250, rotel 2x200 - i forget the model #, cary cinema 5, cary 500 MB), and at times i could tell the difference between the amplifier & using a receiver & at times i could not. switching to an anthem avm30 & an amplifier as opposed to a receiver (denon 2805) generally was an improvement, & i posted results of my listening tests at the time. it depends on what speakers your using, the quality of the pre-amp your using, & what amplifier as to whether seperates will offer any sonic improvement over a receiver or a receiver used as a pre-amp with an external amplifier. the only way to find out is to listen for yourself.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Anyway, my question is this... Have any of you tried this experiment and what were your results? I'm not trying to sway anyone for or against high end cables. I'm just curious what you might have found. I also tried running my Anthem amplifier out of thte Yamaha's front preamp outputs but found that it really offered no improvement. I will say though that this may have changed if I could really play my system LOUD. My room is only 16' by 12' by 9'. At low volumes, the amplifier (either the Yamaha or Anthem is probably only peaking out at 3-5 watts per channel tops) is probably not going to be a big factor in overall sound quality. Especially since both are very modern, high quality designs.

So again, what has been your experience with amps? I welcome any opinions on the matter.

Sorry about the long post. Thanks for sticking with it to the end. :)
Chris.
There has been a number of published testing of various components. Some are available on line. Some audio clubs still do these testing. Some claim interesting results for grossly flawed tests:D
So, you need to be aware what is out there, what is reality, hype, voodoo, urban legend, etc.

Some reading material for you:

http://www.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_new.htm

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.opinion/msg/ca812398b0e39c50

http://www.mastersonaudio.com/audio/20020901.htm

http://webpages.charter.net/fryguy/Amp_Sound.pdf

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

http://www.matrixhifi.com/pruebasciegas.htm
This one you need the google translator to English

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.opinion/msg/b1ffc3ea3ea2ed88

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.opinion/browse_frm/thread/664b8681ab141263/3fd91bcb6a1522a0?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rnum=1&prev=/groups?q=sunshine+stereo+yamaha+abx+nousaine&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=501fl6%24ac3%40oxy.rust.net&rnum=1#3fd91bcb6a1522a0

http://www.vxm.com/21R.64.html

Kind of waste of time trying to reinvent the wheel:D

The brain is very good at filling in information when a stream is incomplete, even if it is false fill. Fooling the senses is common.
Ever asked someone to repeat what they said just to be told nothing was said in the first place?
 
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