America's Unchallenged Youth...

[Halon451]

Okay... here goes.

I have to take a moment and vent some frustrations over a growing and disturbing problem that is threatening to overcome the very fabric of our nation, as a whole, in parts, and right to our very front doors. Maybe this frustration is a side-effect of getting older, perhaps a little more jaded, perhaps a bit over-sensitive and 'out of the loop' (i.e. I just don't get it...)

I am talking about the state of America's youth...

I recently attended an IEEE event honoring recent graduates of my local University's Electrical Engineering program. As they read the list of names of the well-deserving grads, I could not help but notice that the overwhelming majority of these students were foreign transfer students, here on student visas.

A well-deserving, wonderful event, and all of these students deserved the honor they received upon completing their education - I applaud them all.

However...

That small tic in the back of my brain suddenly leapt into action, as I walked back across the campus following the closing comments, customary handshakes, exchanging of business cards, etc. It was dark by then, and being that it was a Friday night, not much activity was present on campus grounds.

Which allowed me to think a little more clearly...

I hate to be a doomsayer in any regard, and generally try to be optimistic about many things, even those I don't directly agree with. But this is one thing that has been pestering me for a long time, and as more time goes by the situation appears to only get worse and worse.

Here in the Myspace generation...

To put my experience with the IEEE event in contrast - immediately thereafter I go to a local fast food resturant for a quick meal before heading home, and the fully american kid working the register had problems counting my change, after the bill was rung up at $4.55, to which I handed him a five dollar bill (and reaching into my pocket) managed to locate two quarters and a nickel. This advanced level of mathematics was obviously too much for the young man, and he only stood there with a confused look on his face.

Or the girl who is wearing the 'Vote for Hillary' button on her jacket, and is on a soap-box about greenhouse gases and global warming, but can't for the life of her recall who Nancy Pelosi is.

Our youth are staggering through a sea of utter and complete nonsense - and are intent on shoving themselves into further ignorance, as the days go by, ensuring that the rest of the world knows just how dumb and ignorant they can be.

Don't believe me? Feel free to check out any number of blogs these days by kids in the age range from 13 to 20-something, and if you can get past the blatant disregard for proper grammar, intelligent thought patterns, misuse of real words, and over-use of foul, thug-induced, self-absorbed banter, you might come to the same conclusion.

The soul of america is our children, and that soul is being ripped away...

Replaced with catatonic, delusional stares into a computer screen as their Myspace friend count continues to rise, and their ambitions die as a flicker in an otherwise apathetic society...

Meanwhile,

In the rest of the world, (that part that hasn't completely homogenized itslef with our current downward spiral) is racing ahead to get the education that our kids are so carelessly tossing away.

I had heard a short while back that India is the world's leader in obtaining doctorate and engineering degrees.

If they're not catching up to us at this point, then they've already surpassed us.

I believe that the potential exists in all of the kids - aside from the few bright shining stars that are still here and working hard to make something of themselves (hopefully these are your children), the rest remain unchallenged, complacent and unafraid of the future that will one day devour them alive.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

I totally agree....

It has a lot has to do with the socialist non-competitive direction in the way our society and education system is raising our children.

I share your pain....

 

[Joe Schmoe]

My dad has a great quote lamenteng "the state of today's youth". Leave out the references to technology, fast food,and America and it sounds just like the OPs rant. It was written around 300 BC!

 

[Halon451]

My dad has a great quote lamenteng "the state of today's youth". Leave out the references to technology, fast food,and America and it sounds just like the OPs rant. It was written around 300 BC!

Then by that logic, Joe, and with all due respect - that puts us about 2,307 years behind the curve on getting a handle on the situation.

 

[avaserfi]

Perhaps I have a unique view on this situation as I am one of these "over achievers" and attribute it to two simple facts:

1) Ever since I was a small child the importance of education was instilled in me by my parents.

2) I am gifted with a far above average IQ.

In the grand scheme of things the first point is far more important than the second as the first is actually proven to fosters the second. Even when my parents were working 60+ hours a week they still made time to ensure if I needed any help with my homework I had it and my parents made sure to support me in every way they thought possible. Now, I am on my own in college and choose to take 20+ credits every semester and am receiving a triple degree with two minors in four years while staying on the honors roll and working.

As a member of this challenged generation, it seems that the fault is predominantly on the parents relying more on new technology, rather than parenting, to raise their children. Furthermore, rather than teaching their children work ethic and the value of a dollar parents spoil their kids.

Mix these factors with the fact that the American school system is designed in a terrible manner - one in which liberals and conservatives are both to blame - we have a generation of inept individuals as a result.

So what is this problem with the school system? Simple, rather than having students learn material they are taught to regurgitate well enough to pass a test which in itself is generally a bad indicator of knowledge. Once these tests are completed all information "learned" is then forgotten. This need for regurgitation is partially the fault of the system and the amount of information that teachers are forced to teach their students in a term which simply doesn't allow for actual learning.

If we followed the footsteps of a country with a successful education system like Japan, for example, where students learn a quarter or less a term than American students, but actually learn the information might help the situation in part. Unfortunately, this country seems to have an ideal that has everyone thinking "It has been around a while, it must work." Lastly, it must be remembered that fixing one part of the system (education problems) will not solve the other (poor parenting).

 

[Alamar]

Perhaps I have a unique view on this situation as I am one of these "over achievers" and attribute it to two simple facts:

1) Ever since I was a small child the importance of education was instilled in me by my parents.

2) I am gifted with a far above average IQ.

And don't forget:

3) Your incredible modesty Sorry man I couldn't resist ...

-------------------------------------------------------------

As for the rest of your post I basically agree with your points. I was going to elaborate but you did a good enough job that I don't really need to say much more about education ....

-------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: As far as fixing the nation's problems I think they are all so interrelated that you won't be able to fix one thing without overhauling everything. In the most simple terms stressing personal freedom balanced with personal responsibility combined with a reasonable implementation of "the golden rule" would take us a long way towards fixing our internal problems.

 

[Halon451]

As far as fixing the nation's problems I think they are all so interrelated that you won't be able to fix one thing without overhauling everything. In the most simple terms stressing personal freedom balanced with personal responsibility combined with a reasonable implementation of "the golden rule" would take us a long way towards fixing our internal problems.

I agree with you... to an extent.

I don't necessarily think that a complete overhaul is required - that presents a rather dangerous scenario, and it is how sociological and cultural reforms have precipitated even more undesirable outcomes - think, the rise of the Soviet Union, communism in general, Hitler youth, etc.

I believe that the concepts and the ideologies that formed what America is today are as sound and secure, more so than probably any other society the world has ever seen. It has what has helped this country become a world power in such a short amount of time, from it's humble colonial beginnings to basically leading the world...

I say that with some reservation - I've been to a lot of countries around the world, and the general attitude towards America is not one of respect - it is one of ridicule more than anything.

You summed it up beautifully with stating stressing personal freedom balanced with personal responsibility combined with a reasonable implementation of "the golden rule" would take us a long way towards fixing our internal problems. Bingo, man - well said.

Along with that Avaserfi hit on two major points - lack of proper parenting and poor education in our school systems. My wife works in the public school system and I get to hear the reports first hand. It's a sobering revelation...

 

[annunaki]

There are some great points brought up here. The parents have a lot to do with it.
Parents who make the effort to spend quality time with their children and find out what they are doing everyday, will have much better grades in school and retain a lot more relevant information.

I have noticed that many of the students out there cannot read or write properly. The grammar used by today's highschoolers is worse than what I remeber in 5th-6th grade. It is not like there is a huge gap in time either. I graduated highschool just 9-1/2 yrs. ago.

My sister-in-law is finishing up school to be a teacher and some of the things that they teach them seem wrong to me. Spelling is a big one. They seem afraid to tell students they are doing something incorrectly for fear of hurting their self esteem. I understand that everyone learns differently and that should be encouraged, however, there is a right way and wrong way that some things are done. A word is spelled correctly or it is not.

I feel that I have to be the one who encourages my kids to learn the important things in school, rather than scaled down diverity training and socialistic type agendas. History taught in schools today is a joke. Much of the history taught is scaled back from what it really was. History isn't all pretty. If we do not learn about our past and how brutal some of it was, how will we ever make the necessary changes for the future.

 

[aberkowitz]

If we followed the footsteps of a country with a successful education system like Japan, for example, where students learn a quarter or less a term than American students, but actually learn the information might help the situation in part. Unfortunately, this country seems to have an ideal that has everyone thinking "It has been around a while, it must work." Lastly, it must be remembered that fixing one part of the system (education problems) will not solve the other (poor parenting).

Talk to a Japanese student sometime about how effective their school system is. I've met many in both my undergrad and graduate level studies as well as my work experience in between- many of them hated their school experiences and found the long days and pushy parents to be more detrimental to their development as humans than positive. Many I've talked to come away with a hatred for education as a whole and use their first few years in the US to completely rebel against everything they were taught. You're starting to see this among Indian students as well (again- I have a lot of experience with this group).

To the OP regarding India leading the world in doctorate and engineering degrees- so what? India has more than 3X the number of people that the US does, more than 2X the population of the entire EU, and is only 200 million away from the population of China (how's this for stats- the US is third in world population is more than a billion away from China). By pure population definition shouldn't India be producing the most doctorate students? Add to that the fact that the majority of work that exists in India right now is tech related since the country requires so much development, it makes perfect sense that their students are trying for these degrees. Two interesting points out of this: 1) Many Indian students come to the US with the dream that they will eventually go back to India and be successful, but many end up doing anything to stay in the US b/c the quality of life and pay is much better here, and 2) It will be interesting to see what happens to India as it moves formally from developing to developed country status (still years away, but getting closer) and there's higher demand for non-tech specialists.

The US system of education isn't perfect nor has it ever been. I think we need more teachers and we need to increase pay for teachers in order to get more. However I also think we need to look to potentially privatize more of the public school systems. The teachers union in this country is incredibly strong, however it tends to do more harm than good. They oppose minimum education standards (e.g. masters degrees), they oppose the ability to fire a teacher for underperforming, they oppose merit pay, and they still maintain the mindset of "us vs. them" when it comes to school boards as opposed to thinking about the job that they do. If we paid teachers enough money, there'd be no need for a union and we could actually institute corporate-style controls and performance reviews so we could reward the good ones and throw out the bad ones on a yearly basis. There's a reason companies like GE have been successful for many years- why can't we use some of that knowledge to run school systems?

P.S. As a "retirement " gig my father took a job as a senior executive of one of the largest school districts in the country, and he spent 80% of his time dealing with state committees and politicians, leaving little time to actually improve the quality of life for the students.

 

[Halon451]

My statement regarding India was not out of resentment, just so I can clarify, it was just to illustrate the contrast between the rest of the world and ourselves. I commend India for taking the necessary steps to further their own development as a country - as any society should do, progression through hardship, development through innovation, creativity, and wisdom to not repeat the same mistakes of the past.

I have met Indian students, and they are a brilliant and capable culture - they will do well because they still know where they come from, and realize where they need to be in terms of global influence and contribution.

In response to the reference about Japanese students. I agree - I don't think the solution is to push our kids so hard that they have no choice but to rebel - guidance and inspiration are the keys to their success, not force. I believe that is what Avaserfi was getting at (correct me if I'm wrong Avaserfi), that humans are by nature born with the gift of intelligence, and it's sad to see it go to waste as it does here in America on a daily basis.

We can only provide them with the right tools and pave a way for them. They have to take the steps on their own - that is what is going to make them successful and capable adults in life.

But -

So many are not even doing that much...

 

[Halon451]

The US system of education isn't perfect nor has it ever been. I think we need more teachers and we need to increase pay for teachers in order to get more. However I also think we need to look to potentially privatize more of the public school systems. The teachers union in this country is incredibly strong, however it tends to do more harm than good. They oppose minimum education standards (e.g. masters degrees), they oppose the ability to fire a teacher for underperforming, they oppose merit pay, and they still maintain the mindset of "us vs. them" when it comes to school boards as opposed to thinking about the job that they do. If we paid teachers enough money, there'd be no need for a union and we could actually institute corporate-style controls and performance reviews so we could reward the good ones and throw out the bad ones on a yearly basis. There's a reason companies like GE have been successful for many years- why can't we use some of that knowledge to run school systems?

P.S. As a "retirement " gig my father took a job as a senior executive of one of the largest school districts in the country, and he spent 80% of his time dealing with state committees and politicians, leaving little time to actually improve the quality of life for the students.

Sorry aberkowitz - I missed all of this as I was posting my last. You must have been in the process of editing, while I was typing my response.

That is a terrific analysis. That's hitting the nail on the head right there - and it mirrors many of the thoughts my wife has, from her own experiences in the school system (she's not a teacher by the way, but she does work with the students).

At any rate, carelessness and lack of a will to better themselves - it's an epidemic regardless of who or what's at fault - my post wasn't an attempt to play the blame game at this or that, just my own frustrations with watching our potential leaders of tomorrow waste away on nonsense.

 

[aberkowitz]

Halon- Completely agree with what you said, and most of it comes down to parents. I think that ties back nicely to your earlier point (and somebody else echoed it) about technology- the easier it becomes to seem like you're involved, the less involved you actually are.

I just get upset at times when people are so quick to point to how other countries do it better/smarter/more efficiently when most of the time the grass isn't as greener. Politicians love to do that, and instead of actually FIXING the f-ing problem they spend all of their time complaining about how things should be done. /rant

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Alex2507]

Is a teacher in Japan allowed to beat the snot out of a student? Somebody here must know.

 

[Halon451]

I have no idea - but even if that were true, what's worse... in Japan where a teacher can beat up a student, or here in America where the students beat the snot out of the teachers?

 

[Tomorrow]

I say that with some reservation - I've been to a lot of countries around the world, and the general attitude towards America is not one of respect - it is one of ridicule more than anything..

Halon, I agree with all you said. I would place a caveat on this one statement, above. I believe that the lack of respect and animosity stem from jealousy and envy. Those other cultures would (and do) have exactly the same self-serving political/cultural policies that we do in our position. Countries and individuals act in their own best interests. Take it to the bank! It's easy to ridicule. That's why the less successful do it so well.

The issues you bring forward need to be addressed by our culture...but, for a variety of reasons, will sadly not be.

 

[Tomorrow]

I have no idea - but even if that were true, what's worse... in Japan where a teacher can beat up a student, or here in America where the students beat the snot out of the teachers?

I believe that Japanese students have the highest suicide rate in the world. There is pressure aplenty placed upon academics in that country.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

the general attitude towards America is not one of respect - it is one of ridicule more than anything.

Is that surprising? After all, we elected GWB (aka the village idiot) twice!

 

[aberkowitz]

Is that surprising? After all, we elected GWB (aka the village idiot) twice!

What was the purpose of this post? We all get it, you don't like the President. We can move on now.

We were having a nice discussion about the education system of this and other countries, why do you feel the need to go totally negative? Isn't it better to discuss potential solutions rather than constantly harp on problems?

 

[Tomorrow]

Is that surprising? After all, we elected GWB (aka the village idiot) twice!

Joe...we all know your feelings about GW. A hundred times over we know your feelings. Please give it a rest. You're beginning to sound psychopathic. Address the issues of the OP or start your own I HATE GWB thread. Please.

 

[Halon451]

I believe that Japanese students have the highest suicide rate in the world. There is pressure aplenty placed upon academics in that country.

Then I truly feel for them as well. I guess Japan represents the other extreme in this case, and serves as an example on that end that somewhere therin lies a comfortable middle ground that should (hopefully) one day be explored.