Am I crazy or is HDMI pretty useless other than convenience

[macersl]

I keep reading about how having HDMI capable receivers are so important to some people. It is to my understanding that the weakest link in the technology chain for home video is the DVD format. TVs, receivers, connections, and of course speakers are already there. A set of component cables can carry an HD signal very well. When HD-DVD or Blu finally do hit the shelves, it will just be catching up the current technology. Also how am I going to tell a difference between 1080p and 1080i when I have a hard time seeing the difference between 720p and 1080i? The same goes for audio. Today's digital audio connections are way ahead of the signals that they carry.

Am I wrong here? I can't see any advantage (other than ease of setting up) of having your system connected with HDMI.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I keep reading about how having HDMI capable receivers are so important to some people. It is to my understanding that the weakest link in the technology chain for home video is the DVD format. TVs, receivers, connections, and of course speakers are already there. A set of component cables can carry an HD signal very well. When HD-DVD or Blu finally do hit the shelves, it will just be catching up the current technology. Also how am I going to tell a difference between 1080p and 1080i when I have a hard time seeing the difference between 720p and 1080i? The same goes for audio. Today's digital audio connections are way ahead of the signals that they carry.

Am I wrong here? I can't see any advantage (other than ease of setting up) of having your system connected with HDMI.

It just makes it nicer if you are mounting a plasma to a wall and running cables within the wall. You probably can't tell a difference between HDMI and component as far as sound or picture. There's some beef about HDMI cables not being secure, like USB's. Some say they should have pin screws like PC VGA connections. Cables are cables. You pretty much nailed it on the head.

 

[scorrpio]

Component connection is still an analog connection. DVI and HDMI are fully digital, so the conversion takes place in the TV unit itself. A digital connection is all but immune to interference.

 

[racquetman]

Imagine a receiver that doesn't need 8 gazillion connectors on the back of it. All it needs is a couple HDMI ins and outs. No separate audio and video connections, just everything through one cable. Imagine the ease for the common consumer. Imagine the cost savings all around.

HDMI is a digital connector. When going to a digital display (LCD, plasma, DLP, etc. . . ) from a digital source (DVD, digital cable, satellite, etc . . .) why settle for an analog component cable. Then you have to convert the digital source signal to analog, send it across the cable, then convert it back to digital for the display. This is unnecessary processing that can only hurt the picture quality.

 

[Mort Corey]

Supposedly, when either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray becomes available, the ONLY connection that will play the HD information will be a digital one...HDMI and maybe DVI...and it will undoubtedly also have some type of copy protection scheme (HDCP or the like). I found the digital connection between my HD cable box and plasma display superior to the component connection for both HD and analog channels (not a lot, but noticeable).

Mort

 

[Khellandros66]

Yes I am anxious to get rid of about 90% of my cables...

~Bob

 

[9f9c7z]

Supposedly, when either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray becomes available, the ONLY connection that will play the HD information will be a digital one...HDMI and maybe DVI...and it will undoubtedly also have some type of copy protection scheme (HDCP or the like). ... Mort

HDMI is a midget version of DVI, they are the same…same cable, same twisted pairs for the same data interface/protocols. Fwiw, Belden makes the cable you need to build your own DVI/HDMI cables. Several months ago I had problems finding male HDMI connectors. No Problem getting the DVI connectors in male or female. Personally, I prefer the DVI connector to the less significant HDMI connector.

When I was researching on the web how to make my own DVI and HDMI cables I came across a website that described the internal conductors, their use, and their values. HDCP was described as a protocol that has the signal origin sending a query down a single conductor. The display senses the query and sends an answer. This query/answer scheme happens about every ½ second. As long as the origin of the signal gets an answer, it transmits data in the correct format until the next query. If at anytime an answer is not returned, the signal’s origin will mis-format the following audio/video signals it sends. To us, it will appear as scrambled video and prob no audio.

If what I read is true, two things come to mind: (1) I give HDMI about 3-seconds in the public domain before hacking h/w is available. And (2) a simple “Y” connector for DVI with one side going to an HDCP enabled display and the other side to a recorder, anyone can record and/or reformat an HDCP source via an HDMI/DVI connection.

Btw, there is something like 6 flavors of DVI. Not all of them are compatible. Some support only video, other’s video and audio, one doesn’t support any digital at all. I forget which specific DVI flavor was identical to HDMI, but HDMI/DVI adapters are common.

 

[Thunder18]

DVI-D is the digital version usually found on HDTV's. DVI-I is the analog version. There are also some video monitors that have a hybrid connector that can accept DVI-D or DVI-I connectors.

 

[Audioholics]

HDMI is a midget version of DVI, they are the same…same cable, same twisted pairs for the same data interface/protocols.

That's not quite accurate because of the audio and control signal capabilities inherent in HDMI. See this article (everyone, not singling out anyone) for more info. DVI and HDMI are certainly compatible, though in terms of video.

Also how am I going to tell a difference between 1080p and 1080i when I have a hard time seeing the difference between 720p and 1080i?

1080p has twice the bandwidth of 1080i while 1080i and 720p have the same bandwidth. In essence, the difference should be very obvious on supporting displays.

 

[Bill3rd]

What I would like to see is a receiver that allows me to connect componant and composite inputs to it, and output it ti the plasma with the HDMI. I just about bought the rx -v4600 today as the saes guy told me this was possible....thank god I was skeptical. What I should add is one that is less than $2000. I think the high end Yahmaha does this...not sure.

 

[Bill3rd]

Ugh!!!!! OK, OK, I see the 2600 now!!! Sorry! Flame me!

 

[AVRat]

You've been flamed!! Also the Denon AVR-4306.

 

[howie85]

Flame! Flame! I just had to hop on the bandwagon for a bit. If you look around there are a few that claim to do what you want the Poneer elite 74txi also makes that claim for under 2k. I personally would like to see a shootout between the new ones under 2k to see how the claims pan out under the expert eyes of the Audioholics testers. I think that would include Denon,Poineer Elite, and Yamaha off the top any others I missed? I trust the feedback I get on this forum much more than the magazine types.

 

[Bill3rd]

So here's my final goal with this type of set-up, and I do not know if it is possible....I connect 2 componant's in, 1 S Video in, 1 set of RCA's in, etc.....Do I have to dedicate the HDMI out to only 1 of these? Or....does the HDMI serve as the link to the set for all of these. That is my ideal.

 

[AVRat]

Yes, everything is then output via the one HDMI connection to your video display.

 

[9f9c7z]

That's not quite accurate because of the audio and control signal capabilities inherent in HDMI. See this article (everyone, not singling out anyone) for more info. DVI and HDMI are certainly compatible, though in terms of video.

Clint – thanks for the updates/corrections. It was hard to find any technical info online about HDMI and especially HDCP. I ended up having to go to a repository of technical data intended for use by attorneys specializing in intellectual property law. Attorneys that got it wrong, who would have thought it possible?


The technology behind HDCP is kind of intriguing. What I read was dramatically different from what you wrote in your article. I would have presumed an encode/decode scheme before I read about the simpler query/answer scheme with no mention of transferring coded data. Looking at the pin assignments, it appears the query/answer scheme is indeed limited to a separate channel. If there is coding, I would be really surprised if it is in any way complex, if at all. The constant q/a scheme (freq of twice per second) along with encoding seems redundant.

There are entire websites/forums dedicated to stripping HDCP from the cable. The proponents of stripping the HDCP aren’t pursuing it for pirating stuff. They claim it interferes with the quality of the signal/transmission such that you don’t get as good a picture as you could otherwise. I wouldn’t know, but it does lend some credence to the suggestion the signal is coded, since I can’t see the parallel query/answer channel itself being a problem.

I am thinking the Panasonic’s $110 (street price) DVI/HDCP input card (TM6D) for their HD plasma displays has everything a HDCP hacker needs on it, all in a self-contained module. That card didn’t go thru Matsush!ta (Panasonic)’s normal product quality/integrity approval channels. Kind of makes me think it is, well, maybe special in some way.

Btw, I am told by folks close to Panasonic that they discontinued the distribution of the input card for HDMI. The problem being exactly what you mentioned in your article, the friction connection sucks. Wasn’t exactly a moment of brilliance for Panny to put the HDMI connection vertical, from the bottom up. Any contact with the cable and it falls right out of there. About 4-months ago I was told (same folks) that a new HDMI connector was in the making (perhaps HDMI v2 connector?) that will use some kind of clasp/clip to retain the connection. Don’t know if it will be unique to Panny or if it will be a new spec’d connector that all HDMI manfs will adopt. Just what we need, another cable adapter.

 

[macersl]

Supposedly, when either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray becomes available, the ONLY connection that will play the HD information will be a digital one...HDMI and maybe DVI...and it will undoubtedly also have some type of copy protection scheme (HDCP or the like). I found the digital connection between my HD cable box and plasma display superior to the component connection for both HD and analog channels (not a lot, but noticeable).

Mort

I find it very hard to believe that there be no component out jacks for the next generation's video format.

 

[jcPanny]

HDMI receivers

I keep reading about how having HDMI capable receivers are so important to some people. It is to my understanding that the weakest link in the technology chain for home video is the DVD format. TVs, receivers, connections, and of course speakers are already there. A set of component cables can carry an HD signal very well. When HD-DVD or Blu finally do hit the shelves, it will just be catching up the current technology. Also how am I going to tell a difference between 1080p and 1080i when I have a hard time seeing the difference between 720p and 1080i? The same goes for audio. Today's digital audio connections are way ahead of the signals that they carry.

Am I wrong here? I can't see any advantage (other than ease of setting up) of having your system connected with HDMI.

While I understand the benifits of HDMI video, I think its importance on your next receiver is overvalued. When the Bluray and HD-DVD formats are eventually available, they will include Dolby-HD audio on a version of HDMI which has yet to be created. The newest receivers which support HDMI 1.1 don't even support SACD over HDMI and that format has been comercially available for some time now.

The new receivers are basically performing the function of an HDMI switch with the added convenience of not needing an optical or digital audio cable from the DVD or cable box to the receiver. In some cases, they also provide upconversion to HDMI reducing the number of cables plugging in to your TV.

There are obviously a lot of people who are willing to pay for these conveniences.

 

[majorloser]

Ok, can answer my question:

If you were going to run a cable to your projector, would you suggest running a HDMI or DVI-I cable? Which is a better quality cable for longer distances?

I have an older B&K Ref 31 which doesn't switch either (and doesn't matter to me) so I don't plan on using the audio part of HDMI. My present projector is a Optoma H78-DC3. I just want to make sure whatever I pull through the conduit will support 1080P or HD-DVD formats.

 

[Mort Corey]

I find it very hard to believe that there be no component out jacks for the next generation's video format.

They may be there, but it's doubful that they'll carry an HD signal due largely to copy protection issues. Zenith, and I believe Momitsu (sp), released upscaling DVD players that output higher scaled resolutions over component connections but later versions of the same players would not. Was pressure brought upon them from a higher power?

Mort