aluminum?.... enclosures?!

[manwithnocape]

Ok, lets get something out of the way, I'm on a Funk Audio kick right now, and thats cool and awesome. You should also note that I am not being paid by Funk either, I'm just a customer and fan. However, I adore other brands as well, such as: Focal, Wavelength, Michell, KEF, Acapella, Emotiva, NAD, Aerial Acoustics, Prima Luna, Manely, old school Klipsch (Heresy, Cornwall, oh the glory days), and the list goes on. The reason for such a diverse taste is the qualities each of these brands manifests in varying elements.

Sound is like a 7 or 8 course meal; should every course be Salmon, or Tiramisu, or Fillet Mignon, or Salad and roasted seasonal vegetables? For some, the answer is yes, for others, variety is called for. It boils down to personal taste, and I enjoy the different sounds of quality products. But then I met this guy named Nathan Funk, and he is a cool cat/mad scientist/audio nerd (his site even says that he's a nerd ). My approach to describing sound is not about numbers or technical data, it's about feel and sensation, and oh what a feeling! When you hear two powered 18.3's, and two powered 18.0's, with two F8.2P's light up..... it gives a totally new meaning to words like: dynamic headroom, sincerity, faithful sound, low distortion, and frequency response. When things around you start shaking and you feel like your being smacked by air, but you can not hear anything, and after 2 hours of 90 db and louder you ears don't hurt... you know you are in the presence of world class sound.

Now, what does this have to do with aluminum enclosures? On his old website (funkywaves) he had some pictures of an aluminum subwoofer enclosure. This enclosure is made of solid 3/4" alum. plate. To say it's heavy is like saying Chernobyl had a mishap, or WWII was an altercation. Well, this mad scientist is playing around with this product again. While he has experienced some interest in this style of enclosure, the weight of the finished product has always been an issue. Now, there has been some newly developed aluminum products that will retain the principal properties of stiffness and internal dampening while shedding pounds of weight. POUNDS of weight!!!! I'm not talking about one or two lbs, more like it is possible to match the weight of his Baltic Birch enclosures. That is something that is noteworthy. While other manufacturers use metals in the enclosure, they are usually a component of, not the summation (with the exception of a few). Hold the phone Ethel, Johnny's dog isn't dead, he was just sleeping! Can this aluminum beast make a come back? Leaner and meaner than before? I think so. Granted that the design can not follow his curved laminated construction, which is sexy as hell, I'm sure his design will be killer. Why isn't aluminum used more often? One word, price. Simply put, it is not cost effective to build, manufacture, thus use aluminum as the enclosure material. When will this aluminum constructed monster burst through the preverbal placenta? I don't know, but I'm sure it will be worth the wait.

 

[lsiberian]

I don't have Aluminum crafting tools, but the concept is interesting. I do use plywood partially for it's weight.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I seen Genelec and B&W (XT series) successfully used metals in their subs enclosure materials ...

Not revolutionary and then again even use of plywood over mdf helps to loose a few pounds...

 

[j_garcia]

Light weight yes, but my guess is the issue will shift from weight to cost. No way that stuff is going to cost anywhere near MDF. You could always do a hybrid like Mordaunt Short - their front panels are aluminum and the rest of the speaker is MDF.

 

[manwithnocape]

some people have retarded amounts of money, and are willing to spend it to get the best. to make the switch to an alum. system, it would have to blow my head off like this thing>>>>> Products

 

[CadenceSound]

This has been done, but its very costly.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Krell and YG have been building aluminum enclosures for years. See below:

Krell Industries, Incorporated, America's premiere manufacturer of high-end audio equipment: award-winning amplifiers, preamplifiers, CD players, DVD players, surround/sound processors, loudspeakers

YG ACOUSTICS - PRODUCTS

The question is, are aluminum enclosures really worth the cost, or are they mostly audiophile jewelry and wood products can sound just as good?

 

[DS-21]

I seen Genelec and B&W (XT series) successfully used metals in their subs enclosure materials ...

Not revolutionary and then again even use of plywood over mdf helps to loose a few pounds...

Don't forget the the Celestion SL600, which used a two thin sheets of aluminum with a honeycombed aluminum inner panel (collectively called "aerolam") as its cabinet material. Here is a pair, with the matching dipole bass bins.

And I still doubt that a metal enclosure, even with new alloys or (more likely) some sort of structured sheet (like a honeycomb or something) between two thin metal parts will save weight over Baltic Birch.

Light weight yes, but my guess is the issue will shift from weight to cost.

Cost in more ways than one. Cost of the materials is likely higher. Cost of machining is likely higher, especially for geometric features that are frankly necessary on mains speakers, such as large roundovers. Cost of finishing may be higher as well, though that depends on the veneers used.

The question is, are aluminum enclosures really worth the cost, or are they mostly audiophile jewelry and wood products can sound just as good?

Jewelry, obviously. However, they can be jewelry and still be worth the cost. I'm not convinced they are, if use of the material limits one to boxy shapes without large roundovers to lower diffraction. I'm more interested in things such as bamboo ply - if I were spec'ing my 12" Tannoy cabs from Nathan today, I would've likely gone with dark grey stained bamboo for the baffle and space frame. - and on the other end of the spectrum polyurethane sheet stock.

An aerolam-type enclosure would be cool, if it could be curved, but keep in mind that that polished metal look works in very few domestic living rooms. Even though I personally think that old 10" sub Nathan was trying to sell for a while looked super-cool.

 

[Rippyman]

Jamesloudspeaker make aluminum enclosures.

See here.
EMB Series II Subwoofers - EMB Series II Subwoofers - all Aluminum

 

[manwithnocape]

i never said that aluminum was never used, i said that there are only a few that use it. for all of you pointing out that there are other companies using AL... thank you for pointing them out, however, you missed the pioneer of aluminum enclosure design... Alon Wolf. as far as all the other aluminum enclosure manufacturers out there, their style sucks. even FA's first aluminum enclosure is too much for me. they look either like military ammo boxes, or some futuristic weird thing... way to hard an cold. even the klipsch icon x is way out there and retarded looking. now FA has changed a ton since the first aluminum enclosure, hell, that AL box on his site was a prototype. to deduct points for style on a prototype is like punching a puppy for not being cute enough.

the point is was trying to make was that the concept of a boutique speaker company getting involved in this kind of material is impressive. that says something about the builder/designer/engineer... he's willing to take chances and push the envelope. PLUS, he can make it custom for a very similar price. do the math, FA builds beautiful cabinets. Nathan knows fine furniture, i live 30 min away from his studio, and the stuff that ive seen since i first visited has been unbelievable (guess why he sells all over the world?) what are the chances of FA putting out an ugly aluminum cabinet? i would say somewhere between d$%k and bugger-all. as for the weight... yes the weight per cubic inch is less than baltic birch and it is stiffer and has more internal dampening, thus more accurate sound. Nathan shoots, scores, and pours a perfect Guinness all at the same time.

 

[DS-21]

i never said that aluminum was never used, i said that there are only a few that use it. for all of you pointing out that there are other companies using AL... thank you for pointing them out, however, you missed the pioneer of aluminum enclosure design... Alon Wolf.

You're kidding, right?

The Celestion SL600 predates any Magico speaker by a good fifteen years. At least. It debuted in 1983 or 1984. (The bass bins in the above picture came a few years later.) And I'm sure there were aluminum speakers before it, though probably not aerolam-based speakers.

Aside from not actually pioneering...well, anything really, the sad thing about a comparison between the SL600 and Wolf's Magico speakers is that the so-called high end he represents by and large hasn't learned anything since the 1980s. He still uses tweeter on a 180deg waveguide for that annoying bloom of lower treble/upper midrange energy that to me defines an inadequately-engineered speaker. He still advocates the 2-speaker model, without multiple pressure sources around the room, which leads to decidedly low-fidelity reproduction of the upper bass.

Nathan knows fine furniture, i live 30 min away from his studio, and the stuff that ive seen since i first visited has been unbelievable (guess why he sells all over the world?) what are the chances of FA putting out an ugly aluminum cabinet?

As one of Nathan's actual customers, I know he does excellent work. However, I don't think your sycophancy is helping him much...

That said, if Nathan can build mains cabinets with sufficient roundovers out of aluminum, that would be very cool.

 

[manwithnocape]

You're kidding, right?

The Celestion SL600 predates any Magico speaker by a good fifteen years. At least. It debuted in 1983 or 1984. (The bass bins in the above picture came a few years later.) And I'm sure there were aluminum speakers before it, though probably not aerolam-based speakers.

Aside from not actually pioneering...well, anything really, the sad thing about a comparison between the SL600 and Wolf's Magico speakers is that the so-called high end he represents by and large hasn't learned anything since the 1980s. He still uses tweeter on a 180deg waveguide for that annoying bloom of lower treble/upper midrange energy that to me defines an inadequately-engineered speaker. He still advocates the 2-speaker model, without multiple pressure sources around the room, which leads to decidedly low-fidelity reproduction of the upper bass.



As one of Nathan's actual customers, I know he does excellent work. However, I don't think your sycophancy is helping him much...

That said, if Nathan can build mains cabinets with sufficient roundovers out of aluminum, that would be very cool.

if you couldn't detect the sarcasm dripping off of my Magico comment, then there is no hope for you or this thread.

 

[lsiberian]

That said, if Nathan can build mains cabinets with sufficient roundovers out of aluminum, that would be very cool.

The list of cabinets with sufficient roundovers to produce a real benefit is not large. I'd also argue that roundovers are overrated in loudspeaker construction. It certainly doesn't hurt, but you need at least an 1 1/2" roundover to get any real benefits from the studies I've read.

 

[funky waves]

you need at least an 1 1/2" roundover to get any real benefits from the studies I've read.

No problem, for custom biulds we can do almost any radius imaginable, in almost any material, including aluminium. Next year we may develop an aluminum(honeycomb laminate) enclosure with 2-3" radius front corners, for the F8.2.P, black anodized, maybe with polished corian top.

 

[manwithnocape]

No problem, for custom biulds we can do almost any radius imaginable, in almost any material, including aluminium. Next year we may develop an aluminum(honeycomb laminate) enclosure with 2-3" radius front corners, for the F8.2.P, black anodized, maybe with polished corian top.

since other aluminum enclosure manufacturers are hitting about 50G's for a pair of loudspeakers, what is your estimated price? and can you hear the benefits? or is this just a rich mans toy?

 

[DS-21]

if you couldn't detect the sarcasm dripping off of my Magico comment, then there is no hope for you or this thread.

Hehe, fair enough.

The list of cabinets with sufficient roundovers to produce a real benefit is not large.

True. Which is one reason why loudspeakers tend to sound fatiguing at high volumes, even large high-efficiency speakers. Which is why some of us commissioned cabinets from Nathan designed above all to minimize diffraction, going from this:

to this:

(hole is for a 12" Tannoy Dual Concentric)

And in (previous) situ, with driver loaded:

Next year we may develop an aluminum(honeycomb laminate) enclosure with 2-3" radius front corners, for the F8.2.P, black anodized, maybe with polished corian top.

Wow, that sounds really spectacular, Nathan.

You're giving me ideas...I don't like that!