All-Channels-Stereo

[mulester7]

.....guys, I base stuff on two channel stereo with rears.....how is a surround receiver setting of 5 channel stereo, or 7 channel stereo, different from what I hear?.....is what you guys get with all-channels-stereo, equal strengthed, and equal volumned, down both sides, by 4 or 6 speakers?....or is it just pop-ins from the back speakers?......

 

[j_garcia]

Rear speakers get an exact copy of what is playing in the mains.

 

[Eric Apple]

Specifically for 5 channel stereo, you gotta throw a center channel in there with the front and rear channels. All the channels are blasting away at the same level. Way loud if you want it to be.

If you just doing this with A+B speaker switches it's about the same except you are also sharing the power of the amp between all the speakers.

Of course, the best part is multichannel sound tracks with music. That's what I'd say you are missing. Not really the 2 channel stuff, it's just more speakers in 5 stereo mode and pretty equal sonic wise to an A+B setup.

The NEO6 and DD PLIIx will "pop sound in and out" and create synthetic surround from 2 channel music. But, I don't like. I stick with 2 front speakers unless it's multi channel music.

 

[patnshan]

Rear speakers get an exact copy of what is playing in the mains.

You know, I don't get this at all despite what setting I use on my SR-8400. I do have different speakers in front and back, but that shouldn't make too much difference I would think. It is calibrated by SPL so it should be equi-loud. I have tried DTS NEO modes, DDII modes, the proprietary circle surround, and the multi speaker setting and have NEVER gotten an exact copy to each of the 5 speakers.

Any ideas why not? I would really like to experience what you state, but have yet to. As of now, I always listen to 2.1 music because I cannot ever get the same thing out of the 5 speakers. I have even gone around and put my ear right up to the speakers!

Thanks,

Pat

 

[MDS]

Neo:6, PLII(x), Circle Surround, et al do not send an exact copy of the mains to the rears. J_garcia was answering the question about all channel stereo.

The key to all channel stereo is the word 'stereo'. It is a DSP mode that duplicates the front left and right channels to the rear right and left channels and sums the front channels for the center. So 5 channel stereo is a stereo signal played over 5 speakers. That's a bit different than the surround modes that use active steering to place certain sounds in certain locations.

 

[j_garcia]

I never use it actually; if I have stereo material, I am normally listening in stereo. Just tried it out and read the manual to see what it does. As MDS noted, it is not a normal DSP that tries to simulate surround. I'm not sure exactly how it handles the center, matrixed I'm guessing.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

.....guys, I base stuff on two channel stereo with rears.....how is a surround receiver setting of 5 channel stereo, or 7 channel stereo, different from what I hear?.....is what you guys get with all-channels-stereo, equal strengthed, and equal volumned, down both sides, by 4 or 6 speakers?....or is it just pop-ins from the back speakers?......

Mule - are you about to take the plunge into surround sound processing?

Here's my .02...

A lot depends on the receiver, and how you've set it up. In most cases, you're not exactly equal distance from all 5 (and especially 7) speakers. So if the front and rear(s) all play in stereo, you'll still receive the signal at different times. If you've properly set the speaker distances, it won't be as noticable - it's not a perfect science

Many times, speakers have different spl ratings even though they come from the same line. Fronts are sometimes higher than rears, and centers could also be different. Driver size changes from towers to surrounds to centers. Crossovers change as well. That's when auto calibration comes into play. A simple measuring tape won't do justice compared to a well placed mic. It will get close, but not exact.

I've got 7.1 channel stereo set up throught the 3805, and it sounds incredible. It took weeks - probably months to properly calibrate. You'll notice that switching from 2.0 or 2.1 to 7.1 will add 3-6dB (possibly more depending on the number of speakers). When I'm in the sweet spot, you can't beat it. It's like an orchestra playing in the living room. I have my 2.0 system in the lower level, but it's a struggle to get me to leave my 7.1.

I never experienced that sound from my older Yamaha or Sony in 5.1 surround. I still enjoy 2.0 and 2.1, but if you can manage to tweak 7.1 correctly - look out.

On the fip side, I can't stand DPLIIx Music or DTS Neo 6 Music. The matrix processing seems to throw a blanket over the music.

Unless you have SACD, DVD-A, or DTS Audio encoded discs with a proper player, forget trying to matrix two channel music to surround. IMO it's terrible (and it could just be the Denon, but I doubt it).

 

[patnshan]

The key to all channel stereo is the word 'stereo'. It is a DSP mode that duplicates the front left and right channels to the rear right and left channels and sums the front channels for the center. So 5 channel stereo is a stereo signal played over 5 speakers. That's a bit different than the surround modes that use active steering to place certain sounds in certain locations.

I get your explanation and appreciate it, but still do not get the results you describe from all channel stereo, ie: left rear getting same signal and same power as left front. I am not sure why this is. For parties and such, I would like to use it. For now, because of poor results, I just use stereo mode.

Pat

 

[mulester7]

Rear speakers get an exact copy of what is playing in the mains.

.....Garcia, or anyone, does the same thing hold true for the surrounds with 7.1?....forget the center, with a 7.1 system and a selection of 7-channel stereo, are you getting an exact copy of the mains through BOTH the surrounds and rears?.....

 

[MDS]

Just curious how you determined that the rear speakers aren't getting the same signal.

BuckeyeFan1 described one issue that I think is relevant:
Alot depends on the receiver, and how you've set it up. In most cases, you're not exactly equal distance from all 5 (and especially 7) speakers. So if the front and rear(s) all play in stereo, you'll still receive the signal at different times. If you've properly set the speaker distances, it won't be as noticable - it's not a perfect science

I only use All Channel Stereo for the radio but to me it does sound like they are all the same - its just an enveloping kind of 'all around you' sound rather than distinct left vs right imaging as you would have for regular stereo.

 

[mulester7]

Mule - are you about to take the plunge into surround sound processing?

.....Buck, one of these days, I plan to give SACD a fair shot....Buck, where does a 141 pound amplifier sit?....answer....anywhere it wants to, haha......

 

[shokhead]

FL&SL same
FR&SR same
FL&FR into the center

 

[mulester7]

FL&SL same
FR&SR same
FL&FR into the center

.....aaahh, thanks, Shokhead....so, we've all got the same thing on all-channels-stereo, with you guys having a center speaker....I plan on a center arrangement....and, I plan on at least a decoder for SACD down the road....very interesting, this hobby that has us by the throat, haha.....

.....guys, important question....do digital cameras meter for long exposures?....like 30 seconds on some models?....not talking about a manual exposure either, but a metered-by-exposure shot....and sure, using a tripod.....

 

[mulester7]

.....guys, I've been pushing voices concerning speakers.....and I'm talking the voices that are created by a different ohmage....you 7.1 guys, that have two honest rear speakers behind you, you can try this, and don't have to move anything....find 2 single lengths of speaker wire that MORE than reach between the rear speakers....disconnect the speaker wire altogether, that arrives at channel 7 speaker, spread the + wire far away from the - wire, and just lay it on the floor, that should be fine, but disconnect the + at the receiver channel 7 if you feel safer.....then disconnect the negative (-) wire at channel 6 speaker....with me?....then run single wire A, from the negative post (-) of channel 6 speaker, to the positive (+) post, of channel 7 speaker....lastly, run single wire B, from negative (-) post of channel 7 speaker, to negative (-) wire of channel 6 speaker you left hanging in the air, just twist the stripped ends together, and ground is returned to the receiver's channel 6 negative (-) post....amp section 7 is now out of the picture....two rears are in series being powered by amp section 6....6.1 guys, same arrangement with speaker added....5.1 guys, not for you, think toward rear speakers for ohmage changes toward sweetness....trying something with the surrounds sounds interesting for sure, but a move toward the efficient is best from behind you, imo....the entire soundstage gets sweeter, of which the surrounds are part of, as they widen....and, we're thinking all-channels-stereo here....we can do what we want to concerning SACD, but otherwise, I'll be at the All-Channels-Stereo Coffee Shop, sippin' coffee......

 

[eirepaul]

I like DPLIIX

Mule - are you about to take the plunge into surround sound processing?

Here's my .02...

A lot depends on the receiver, and how you've set it up. In most cases, you're not exactly equal distance from all 5 (and especially 7) speakers. So if the front and rear(s) all play in stereo, you'll still receive the signal at different times. If you've properly set the speaker distances, it won't be as noticable - it's not a perfect science

Many times, speakers have different spl ratings even though they come from the same line. Fronts are sometimes higher than rears, and centers could also be different. Driver size changes from towers to surrounds to centers. Crossovers change as well. That's when auto calibration comes into play. A simple measuring tape won't do justice compared to a well placed mic. It will get close, but not exact.

I've got 7.1 channel stereo set up throught the 3805, and it sounds incredible. It took weeks - probably months to properly calibrate. You'll notice that switching from 2.0 or 2.1 to 7.1 will add 3-6dB (possibly more depending on the number of speakers). When I'm in the sweet spot, you can't beat it. It's like an orchestra playing in the living room. I have my 2.0 system in the lower level, but it's a struggle to get me to leave my 7.1.

I never experienced that sound from my older Yamaha or Sony in 5.1 surround. I still enjoy 2.0 and 2.1, but if you can manage to tweak 7.1 correctly - look out.

On the fip side, I can't stand DPLIIx Music or DTS Neo 6 Music. The matrix processing seems to throw a blanket over the music.

Unless you have SACD, DVD-A, or DTS Audio encoded discs with a proper player, forget trying to matrix two channel music to surround. IMO it's terrible (and it could just be the Denon, but I doubt it).

I find DPLIIX to be quite a pleasing effect. It is a processed version of multi-channel surround but it's not too bad. Not as good as true multi-channel surround, but not bad. However, I don't care for DTS Neo6 - it's not nearly as good as DPL. 7-channel stereo is also a great way to listen to music. I only sometimes listen in 2-ch anymore. The soundstage just seems so collapsed in comparison, unless I'm really cranking it to fill the room. You don't have to have it so loud to fill the room with the other modes. Of course, the key to all this is having your receiver properly calibrated and your speakers properly matched (all from the same line) and located.