Advice requested - Decent HT speaker sys.

[Dirkdaddy]

I would appreciate some advice on a HT speaker system. I have about $1700 to spend, including sub. My room is large, 20' x 29' with 10' ceiling (includes kitchen as many homes do now). I'm looking to upgrade my current system, or convert it to one for the game room / sell it. The size of the room eats bass, and I'd like a little more than what I have.

My current audio system consists of:

Sherwood receiver with digital inputs, pre-outs
Carver 5 channel HT power amp, I think its about 125 watt per channel.
Audio Control EQ with mic and pink noise, 2 channel
Polk 12a (80's vintage) monitors (large on stands)
Polk Center
Definitive Technology surround
Sunfire signature sub

My receiver sort of sucks for sound quality, I know, but it does the job OK for now and has that "circle surround" that works pretty good for parties and music. I think it sucks for sound quality compared to a crisp and clear sounding Carver receiver (2 channel). But that's another issue, not for now.

I have plenty of power for my listening taste, in fact I think the power amp is probably overkill but nothing wrong with that.

The surround speakers are wall mounted 2/3 of the way back where the kitchen starts. Because of this mount, some bi-polar types might work well.

I have another home water damaged and the decent speakers there were covered in a homeowner's policy for full replacement value, so I have to buy speakers to receive payment. That's the overview.

My current system is capable enough but old, and not matched, but it works pretty good, except for a nasty hum the sunfire signature has that seems to be connection problem internally. (I have disassembled and tried to see if a solder connection was loose, but I can't find it_) I have a game room with a screen that we could use a new system in or move my existing speakers up there, either way the requirements are similar although the game room is smaller.

The size of the room eats bass, and while the signature has some really good bass, for HT more is better. I have room for the water heater type and was thinking of a SVS style or pair of them, and then getting a sat. system. Since I still have the carver receiver, I could use its 150 watt rms power to power a passive sub. I used to subscribe to audio mags in '80's and replace parts of my system on about an annual basis, but since I'm middle aged now, I have just been using what I have, only upgrading I've done was to get 5.1 added to my system. I have very little idea of what systems I should be looking at except from prior knowledge.

On ebay I have seen some systems from big mfg's I trust like Polk, KEF, etc. We do have local stores which I will also go to, but figured I'd ask for advice.

Here are a few things I saw last night:

oops, I had to delete my links to post as a newbie.

Thanks in advance for reading my rambling note!

 

[Highbar]

My first question is are you just looking for 5.1 speakers or do you want a new receiver and all?

If you just want speakers than that shouldn't be a problem. A few places to start looking would be Axiom and SVS. SVS makes some incredible subs but they can be pricy so watch your budget. Axiom's surrounds are some of the best reviewed bi-pole speakers. There are plenty more brands out there. You could also check out Ascend.

All of the companies I've linked to are online only but that's where the money savings are, and you get a lot more for your dollar.

 

[AVRat]

There’s probably nothing wrong with the DT surrounds, it's not as critical that they match your fronts, which model? If the Polk front soundstage isn’t quite timbre matched it can throw the HT presentation off and may need upgrading. The sub system is definitely a major concern for the best HT experience. This is probably where I’d start. And to fill your space well will consume most if not all of your budget. This of course depends on your expectations.

Which Sherwood receiver model? If it has decent bass management it may be a keeper for now, otherwise upgrade.

 

[shadyJ]

As the above poster asked, is this budget including receiver or is it just the speakers? Because when you say "speaker system", to me that means speakers only.

The idea of using your amp to power a couple passive subs seems like it might be worth trying. I don't believe SVS sells passives anymore though. Perhaps there is a good DIY kit out there that can accommodate your amp. You should hit up the subwoofer forum for suggestions about passive subs.

There are very good packages with subs. In addition to the previously mentioned Axiom, Ascend, and SVS, check out Elemental Designs and HSU Research. In your room, I wouldn't want to use satellites or smaller bookshelf speakers. You will also want a serious subwoofer, something above entry level- and probably two of them at that.

HSU has a package called the Enthusiast 3 which is rated for 6000 cubic feet, which is almost the size of your room, and it sells for $1600. That is a seven channel speaker set, but if you called them up and asked them just for five speakers instead of seven, they would do so and have it be fairly reflected in price. Or you could try the enthusiast 2 setup, Which is five speakers, and ask them to throw in another VTF2 sub, I think they would be willing to do that within your budget. Those speakers they sell are pretty heavy-duty bookshelfs, and the subs are absolutely solid.

Also check out Elemental Designs Home Theater Package Builder. In your budget, I would do a A6 6T6 Tower fronts, A6 6T6 Center, A3 5TC Bookshelf rears, and a A7S-450 subwoofer. That system comes out to $1440, and the subwoofer is a beastly sealed 18 incher. You should also call them up and ask what kind of discount you can get for two less expensive subs rather than one big one, because for a room of your size, even the 450 may not do the trick. But anything you could get from Elemental Designs would be a fantastic sounding system.

If you were to go with SVS, I would get a STS setup with the PB12 sub for $1639. I am not sure that any of their smaller speakers could do the trick with a room that large. Those STS towers look fabulous though.

Ascend is having a moving sale, a very good five speaker set for $1000. Pair that up with a good sub from Epik, HSU, SVS, Outlaw, or Elemental Designs, and you will have one beefy system for your budget.

With any of these systems though, one subwoofer, even a good one, might have trouble covering your room evenly- it sounds like you could have a lot of bass nulls. I would get one good sub now and keep in mind that another identical sub could be added later for a much more even and authoritative bass sound through out your whole room.

 

[shadyJ]

Oh yeah, and about the hum from your sunfire sub, maybe this webpage could be helpful.

 

[browninggold]

Here is a good online company.

http://www.aperionaudio.com/home.aspx

 

[Dirkdaddy]

Clarification

Thanks for advice. Yes, due to the specifics of the insurance settlement for the speakers, I will need to buy a new pair/set of speakers to get reimbursed. I'm really not unhappy with the current speaker setup (the Sunfire the exception with its hum) , but the idea of getting something new is always interesting. Of course I could turn around and sell them and use the cash for something else.

To answer, yes, I have some significant "null" places for bass in the room. I guess its unavoidable, I've not had a sub before just my mains and the sub has always been in this room, but you can hear like nearly no super low bass in some spots when walking around and then tons in other spots.

I'll check on the links provided, thanks.

At one point I was going to make a passive sub out of a sonotube as many have done, I'm handy enough but I have a lot of projects already! I had even thought of hanging a sonotube from the ceiling in a corner, but not sure the boss would like that idea/look.

I have not had trouble with having enough volume - I don't really crank it up really loud as the wife thinks its "too loud". In my past I've really cranked my tunes up, but like I said, now I'm 46 and lost a bit of hearing, I see little need if its clear and well defined.

 

[Dirkdaddy]

Hmmm...

Out of the excellent looking systems, some stand out more than others when compared to my budget and requirements. I was thinking of two of the SVS PC12 plus woofers and keeping my other speakers if the insurance co would take that for an answer. Hard to keep my budget and get the sub and rest of speakers I wanted.

REgarding the hum, you guys might be right. It doesnt' happen until a loud passage. Sometimes I can get it to stop by banging on the top of the Sunfire with my bare foot, so I assumed it was a connection, but it might be ground loop.

The cables are curious. If you look inside most audio components, the chassis ground is the same as the shield or outer layer of the RCA wire connectors. So you should not see a difference electricaly if you ground to case or the RCA, in theory, but i can give it a try wtih some test equipment.

 

[shadyJ]

You don't have to live with bass nulls, even with a larger room. Getting two or more subs go a long way toward evening out not just bass nulls and peaks, but frequency response nulls and peaks. Check this out.

 

[WmAx]

I am not sure what you want in regards to the speakers. But if you maximum performance for price is the issue, there is no beating Behringer B2030P ($150/pair) speakers. Based on actual build quality and measured performance, nothing compares to them until you get to about 4x their price, minimum. I am not exaggerating; this is based on actual measured performance compared to measured performance of well known popular speaker models.

The step up (not in SQ, but in SPL ability - low distortion with higher SPL) is Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SE. These cost about 2x as much, but also get 2x as loud. They use excellent quality motors in the newer SE versions. These speakers perform better than almost anything in their price range.

All of the above are 2 way units intended to be crossed at about 80Hz-85Hz.

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

I would appreciate some advice on a HT speaker system. I have about $1700 to spend, including sub. My room is large, 20' x 29' with 10' ceiling (includes kitchen as many homes do now). I'm looking to upgrade my current system, or convert it to one for the game room / sell it. The size of the room eats bass, and I'd like a little more than what I have.

My current audio system consists of:

Sherwood receiver with digital inputs, pre-outs
Carver 5 channel HT power amp, I think its about 125 watt per channel.
Audio Control EQ with mic and pink noise, 2 channel
Polk 12a (80's vintage) monitors (large on stands)
Polk Center
Definitive Technology surround
Sunfire signature sub

My receiver sort of sucks for sound quality, I know, but it does the job OK for now and has that "circle surround" that works pretty good for parties and music. I think it sucks for sound quality compared to a crisp and clear sounding Carver receiver (2 channel). But that's another issue, not for now.

I have plenty of power for my listening taste, in fact I think the power amp is probably overkill but nothing wrong with that.

The surround speakers are wall mounted 2/3 of the way back where the kitchen starts. Because of this mount, some bi-polar types might work well.

I have another home water damaged and the decent speakers there were covered in a homeowner's policy for full replacement value, so I have to buy speakers to receive payment. That's the overview.

My current system is capable enough but old, and not matched, but it works pretty good, except for a nasty hum the sunfire signature has that seems to be connection problem internally. (I have disassembled and tried to see if a solder connection was loose, but I can't find it_) I have a game room with a screen that we could use a new system in or move my existing speakers up there, either way the requirements are similar although the game room is smaller.

The size of the room eats bass, and while the signature has some really good bass, for HT more is better. I have room for the water heater type and was thinking of a SVS style or pair of them, and then getting a sat. system. Since I still have the carver receiver, I could use its 150 watt rms power to power a passive sub. I used to subscribe to audio mags in '80's and replace parts of my system on about an annual basis, but since I'm middle aged now, I have just been using what I have, only upgrading I've done was to get 5.1 added to my system. I have very little idea of what systems I should be looking at except from prior knowledge.

On ebay I have seen some systems from big mfg's I trust like Polk, KEF, etc. We do have local stores which I will also go to, but figured I'd ask for advice.

Here are a few things I saw last night:

oops, I had to delete my links to post as a newbie.

Thanks in advance for reading my rambling note!

I'm a KEF/Infinty guy when it comes to speakers.

For home theater I really like the Beta 40/360 combo. Or the iQ5/iQ6 combo

With the harman audio store the 40/360 combo is around 500 bucks far below where theses used to retail.

pair those with a little JL Audio 110 or SVS sub and you got a very nice system for home theater.

Sherwood makes a lot of receivers and is a good brand actually. In a double blind test you may find out it's better than your perceiving.

 

[fredk]

If bass is your biggest beef and you can't solve the issue with the sunfire, I would go with the two subs. It will make a huge difference in your room.

I like my Axioms, but there are plenty of other good speakers out there too.

 

[Dirkdaddy]

what about this deal?

Saw this on ebay about $1700 and could sell polk sub and buy SVS, or fix the sunfire

TSi 500 One Pair, TSi 200 One Pair, CS20 One Center Speaker, Psw125 One Powered Subwoofer


We are Factory Authorized Online to sell the Polk Audio you find on our websites. Polk Audio only honors the warranty if you buy from Authorized Dealers.



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TSi 500 Towers
Driver Complements
Mid/Woofer 4 - 6-1/2" Diameter (16.51cm) Bi-Laminate Organic Fiber cone
Tweeter 1 - 1" Diameter (2.54cm) Silk Dome Dynamic Balance
Overall Frequency Response 28Hz-25kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 38Hz dB
Upper -3dB Limit 24KHz dB
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power 20-275 w/channel
Efficiency 91 dB
Crossover 2500
Inputs Dual 5 way binding posts
Cabinet Size 44-3/8" H x 8-1/4" W x 17-3/4" D
Speaker Warranty 5 years parts and labor (original purchaser)


TSi 200 Bookshelves


Driver Complements
Mid/Woofer 2 - 5-1/4" Diameter (13.34cm)
Bi-Laminate Organic Fiber cone
Tweeter 1 - 1" Diameter (2.54cm) Silk Dome Dynamic Balance
Overall Frequency Response 43-25KHz
Lower -3dB Limit 50Hz dB
Upper -3dB Limit 24KHz dB
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power 20-150 w/channel
Efficiency 89 dB
Crossover 2500 Hz, 2nd order
Inputs Dual 5 way binding posts
Cabinet Size 15-2/5" H x 8" W x 11-3/4" D
Speaker Warranty 5 years parts and labor (original purchaser)


CS20 Center Speaker


Driver Complements
2 - 6-1/2" Diameter (16.51cm) Bi-Laminate Organic Fiber cone

Tweeter 1 - 1" Diameter (2.54cm) Silk Dome Dynamic Balance
Overall Frequency Response 48-25KHz
Lower -3dB Limit 58Hz dB
Upper -3dB Limit 24KHz dB
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power 20-150 w/channel Efficiency 91 dB
Crossover 2500 Hz, 2nd order
Inputs 5 way binding posts
Cabinet Size 7-3/8" H x 23" W x 10-3/4" D
Speaker Warranty 5 years parts and labor (original purchaser)


PSW 125 Powered Subwoofer

bass-reflex (ported) enclosure
150-watt RMS amplifier
12" front-firing driver
frequency response 32-225 Hz
continuously variable 60-160 Hz crossover
phase switch
auto on/off
speaker-level, line-level, and unfiltered LFE inputs
speaker-level output
16-1/4"W x 16-11/16"H x 20-7/16"D
warranty: 5 years woofer, 3 years amplifier