Advice regarding choice of center speaker.

[Christianms]

I’m looking to add a center speaker to my setup. My current L and R speakers are Arendal Sound 1723 Tower THX, and I’m running a Yamaha RX A8A receiver. Initially my intention was to add the 1723 Center THX. However, recent research on center speakers has made me question that choice. I am aware that there is a difference of opinion on running a different brand C versus L and R. Some people say you should not, others that it’s fine, as long as the center speaker is able to match the L and R in tonality. The Arendal is a 2.5 way MTM design, which as I understand it is not ideal. In addition, James Larson reviewed the 1723 Monitor THX for Audioholics. The 1723 Center THX is the same speaker made for horizontal placement. In his review he stated the following in regard to its horizontal dispersion.

«I don’t normally include this graph in reviews, but since the 1723 Monitor will have identical performance on a vertical plane to the 1723 Center in a horizontal plane, I thought it would be good to include it to illustrate the performance of the 1723 Center’s horizontal dispersion pattern. The MTM design of the 1723 Monitor/Center makes a lobing pattern along the axis of the woofers inevitable at off-axis angles. As discussed above, the woofer cancellation starts to take a toll on the response up to the 1.5kHz crossover point at about a 20-degree angle. So if the user is going to have a 1723 Center speaker, they should be seated within 20 degrees on either side of the on-axis angle for a full sound.»

The drawback of the MTM design and the very narrow angle of 20 degrees makes me think that it might be better to look at a different center speaker. So after checking out a few other brands I found the SVS Ultra Center, a 3-way [W(T/M)W] design. Which as I understand it is a much better design for a center speaker. The woofers are a bit smaller, tweeter is about same size. Sensitivity is also a bit lower on the SVS, rated at 87 vs 92 for the 1723 Tower. But with EQ, could this speaker be a good match for my current L and R?

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[JerryLove]

This general discussion is common and there should be several articles on it here on AH.

An ideal world uses identical speakers for LCR. This gives the same frequency response, the same dispersion, etc. For most people, however, the nature of how the TV exists mean that putting a tower or even bookshelf for center is a problem, so you get the horizontal speakers for center. This leads to the decisions you are weighing now.

I don't really know that I can offer a useful opinion on which way to go without hearing the setups in question. I simply don't know how well they will blend (and honestly don't have any horizontal centers; my really critical listening has either been pairs or whole surround setups).

Start with whomever has a good return policy?

 

[Eppie]

SVS and Arendal both have good return policies in the U.S. so this might be a good case for ordering both and deciding which one to keep. The lobing of the 1723 might seem bad, but I believe that is 20 degrees from center, so you have a 40 degree cone to sit within. That is not so bad if the system is mostly for 1 or 2 people. It becomes more of an issue for people sitting off to the side or if you are walking about the room and want the sound to be consistent.

 

[TLS Guy]

I’m looking to add a center speaker to my setup. My current L and R speakers are Arendal Sound 1723 Tower THX, and I’m running a Yamaha RX A8A receiver. Initially my intention was to add the 1723 Center THX. However, recent research on center speakers has made me question that choice. I am aware that there is a difference of opinion on running a different brand C versus L and R. Some people say you should not, others that it’s fine, as long as the center speaker is able to match the L and R in tonality. The Arendal is a 2.5 way MTM design, which as I understand it is not ideal. In addition, James Larson reviewed the 1723 Monitor THX for Audioholics. The 1723 Center THX is the same speaker made for horizontal placement. In his review he stated the following in regard to its horizontal dispersion.

«I don’t normally include this graph in reviews, but since the 1723 Monitor will have identical performance on a vertical plane to the 1723 Center in a horizontal plane, I thought it would be good to include it to illustrate the performance of the 1723 Center’s horizontal dispersion pattern. The MTM design of the 1723 Monitor/Center makes a lobing pattern along the axis of the woofers inevitable at off-axis angles. As discussed above, the woofer cancellation starts to take a toll on the response up to the 1.5kHz crossover point at about a 20-degree angle. So if the user is going to have a 1723 Center speaker, they should be seated within 20 degrees on either side of the on-axis angle for a full sound.»

The drawback of the MTM design and the very narrow angle of 20 degrees makes me think that it might be better to look at a different center speaker. So after checking out a few other brands I found the SVS Ultra Center, a 3-way [W(T/M)W] design. Which as I understand it is a much better design for a center speaker. The woofers are a bit smaller, tweeter is about same size. Sensitivity is also a bit lower on the SVS, rated at 87 vs 92 for the 1723 Tower. But with EQ, could this speaker be a good match for my current L and R?

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

I would take a good look at a KEF center. I would get one from their meta range. They use a coaxial driver. Coaxial drivers are ideal for center speakers. That KEF meta range is excellent.

If speakers are excellent there is no problem mixing brands.

I use a coaxial drivers for my center speakers and the result is optimal, with uniform coverage throughout the seating area.

There really ought to be more center speakers with coaxial drivers, they are optimal for that application.

 

[shadyJ]

If you have a wide listening area, than a three-way center is the way to go. If its just going to be you most of the time and you will be sitting in the sweet spot, a two-way will be okey. In my experience, an MTM can sound fine if you are seated on axis with the tweeter. Outside of that, the sound can suffer.

 

[Christianms]

I would take a good look at a KEF center. I would get one from their meta range. They use a coaxial driver. Coaxial drivers are ideal for center speakers. That KEF meta range is excellent.

If speakers are excellent there is no problem mixing brands.

I use a coaxial drivers for my center speakers and the result is optimal, with uniform coverage throughout the seating area.

There really ought to be more center speakers with coaxial drivers, they are optimal for that application.

Interesting, I'll definitely check them out! What are the advantages of coaxial drivers?

 

[Christianms]

SVS and Arendal both have good return policies in the U.S. so this might be a good case for ordering both and deciding which one to keep. The lobing of the 1723 might seem bad, but I believe that is 20 degrees from center, so you have a 40 degree cone to sit within. That is not so bad if the system is mostly for 1 or 2 people. It becomes more of an issue for people sitting off to the side or if you are walking about the room and want the sound to be consistent.

A fair point. In 95% of all viewings the people watching will probably be within the cone. So that will most likely not be the main issue. But since the MTM design also has other drawbacks I'm still seriously considering the SVS 3 way, it's even almost the same price as the 1723 center, only slightly more expensive. But now KEF might be an option to....

 

[Christianms]

If you have a wide listening area, than a three-way center is the way to go. If its just going to be you most of the time and you will be sitting in the sweet spot, a two-way will be okey. In my experience, an MTM can sound fine if you are seated on axis with the tweeter. Outside of that, the sound can suffer.

Thx

 

[Christianms]

This general discussion is common and there should be several articles on it here on AH.

An ideal world uses identical speakers for LCR. This gives the same frequency response, the same dispersion, etc. For most people, however, the nature of how the TV exists mean that putting a tower or even bookshelf for center is a problem, so you get the horizontal speakers for center. This leads to the decisions you are weighing now.

I don't really know that I can offer a useful opinion on which way to go without hearing the setups in question. I simply don't know how well they will blend (and honestly don't have any horizontal centers; my really critical listening has either been pairs or whole surround setups).

Start with whomever has a good return policy?

Thx

 

[TLS Guy]

Interesting, I'll definitely check them out! What are the advantages of coaxial drivers?

They have the ideal dispersion pattern for coverage of the whole listening area evenly. They are point sources in terms of speech and vocal. They are the speakers most likely to produce clear and natural speech.

I use SEAS coaxial drivers manufactured under licence from KEF. I don't know of another center speaker that produces such excellent results for the center application.

I came up with this solution after thinking about the issue and doing my own research.

Not being able to reproduce truly natural speech is a major shortcoming of most speakers and unfortunately this tends to be especially true of center speakers.

Now that my photo site has recovered from this latest world wide mishap I can show you what I mean

The lower driver is the main driver, and the upper one the fill driver for BSC correction. The upper tweeter is used to correct an on axis cancellation mode at 9K due to cancellations from the reflections of the tweeter output by the cone. It is an active TL speakers and I have been very pleased with it.

I think though the KEF coaxials which are improved drivers would do an excellent job for you.

 

[highfigh]

They have the ideal dispersion pattern for coverage of the whole listening area evenly. They are point sources in terms of speech and vocal. They are the speakers most likely to produce clear and natural speech.

I use SEAS coaxial drivers manufactured under licence from KEF. I don't know of another center speaker that produces such excellent results for the center application.

I came up with this solution after thinking about the issue and doing my own research.

Not being able to reproduce truly natural speech is a major shortcoming of most speakers and unfortunately this tends to be especially true of center speakers.

I would add that anyone searching for speakers should avoid any that sound 'boxy' when people speak. That takes only a few seconds of listening and can significantly shorten the time needed for eliminating most from the list of candidates.

When I did car audio, coaxial speakers were common, but not usually great. Then, a few companies started to use an outboard crossover to replace the little cap on the tweeter and performance improved greatly. The improved time alignment and reduced modulation of the upper mids/high frequencies made auto sound much better- this was before the time when SPL was the way too many people judged the quality of the systems and the goal of some of us was to make the system sound very good, not just loud.

The KEF Q250c retails for $599 and they do go on sale occasionally.

 

[Golfx]

James Larsan gave a very favorable review to the Polk L400 center in this review.

Polk Audio Legend L200 Bookshelf and L400 Center Speaker Review

The L200 are Polk's latest high-end bookshelf speaker, and the L400 is the Legend center speaker. Both boast many of the state-of-the-art advances. Check out our detailed review of both here.

www.audioholics.com

 

[Teetertotter?]

I found the PSB Imagine XC, giving me great dialog understanding. Matching did not do anything for me. Also, I have sound coming from the screen. You know what I mean?

 

[carlosmiguez75]

Glad you found a great speaker for dialog understanding! Yeah, I know what you mean about sound coming from the screen - it's like the audio is more immersive and engaging.

 

[Kingnoob]

I found the PSB Imagine XC, giving me great dialog understanding. Matching did not do anything for me. Also, I have sound coming from the screen. You know what I mean?

PSB Imagine line looks pretty nice, I’ve never heard the brand yet.