ADVICE: OPPO 203 (Preamplifier) + Emotiva A-5175 (Living Room Home Theater)

Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Basically what you're telling me is that all devices will sound the same?
More or less, with caveats, of course. Level matching, operating within spec, not audibly distorting, any and all eq defeated, etc.
Sorry, I'm unable to draw a conclusion based on your responses.
Peng is just very careful about speaking in absolutes or making blanket statements.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
More or less, with caveats, of course. Level matching, operating within spec, not audibly distorting, any and all eq defeated, etc.

Peng is just very careful about speaking in absolutes or making blanket statements.
I have issue with the "all devices..". part. Don't you?

Edit:. I think we can quickly name two that won't sound the same even in DBT. We both did the Klippel test, that's enough proof.:D:D
 
V

Venue

Junior Audioholic
So I got a response from Oppo's official support, they asked about the gain of my power amplifier, I said it was +29dB, unadjustable, they said that's quite low but they've had users having even lower, but that was with the 205 and the Sabre DAC's, are they saying I'll run into issues?

FWIW, I did some quick math, if 1bit of resolution is worth 6dB, the 'headroom' in the AK4458VN DAC is (32-24= 8*6= 48dB) does this translate to a mere 48dB adjustment down from a 100% fixed volume before starting to chip away bits from a 24bit signal?

I read in AKM's specsheet for their DAC, it has 256 levels of attenuation, 0.5dB per step.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
Hello, thank you for chiming in.
What do you find inconvenient about your 205 acting as a preamplifier/processor?
Where do you adjust your volume, in your 5.1 analog preamplifier?
Why do you have an analog preamplifier after the 205 in your chain, wouldn't the 205 be enough?
The 5.1 analog preamp (Sony TA-P9000ES) receives 5.1 analog output from the OPPO. The preamp has a volume control. Without it the OPPO via its variable output on remote would serve as a preamp with direct connection to 5 channel power amp powering mains, surrounds, and center, as well as a bridged power amp powering subwoofer. That arrangement is not viable since I have more digital source components than the OPPO can accomodate and, of course, the OPPO does not accomodate analog source components. Thus the need for the 5.1preamp, which also has a 5.1 bybass feature that supports input from my 2.1 Parasound P6 Preamp and DAC accommodating my stereo source components and providing bass management for them.
49727485498_1e01c8e803_c.jpg
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Sorry, I'm unable to draw a conclusion based on your responses.
I feel like I'm at square one, do me a favor, if you were to pick a solution for me, which would it be?

A) OPPO + Emotiva
B) A/V Receiver

Thank you.
4 pages after, I lost track of what has been said so I went back to page 1 and found that on post#10, I suggested you try a) first.

If for some reason there is a problem, then you can revisit B), but in that case I would like to know which AVR you have in mind, you did mention the AVR-X3600H iirc.

Again, for now, I am sticking with my initial recommendation, that based on what you are trying to achieve, go with option A).
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
So I got a response from Oppo's official support, they asked about the gain of my power amplifier, I said it was +29dB, unadjustable, they said that's quite low but they've had users having even lower, but that was with the 205 and the Sabre DAC's, are they saying I'll run into issues?
Lower gain is good in this case, because you don't have to turn the volume down as much. I think I mentioned before, your Klipsch speakers are relatively sensitive so even 29 dB gain on the power amp is actually quite high. I highly doubt it is an issue unless you listen at lower level, requiring the volume to be set below 50 or so.
 
V

Venue

Junior Audioholic
Found this, it's the DAC board of Denon X4500H, see below:

Doesn't look like much for competition, sure, dual DAC's, same as in the 203, see the 203 board below:

Looks like you need to up your price if you want a little more, X6500H below:

The real improvement lies higher, it seems, X8500H:


Here is my current A/V receiver's amplifier board, Sony STR-DN1080:

Something, MUCH more expensive, Pioneer SC-LX901:

Then we have something, a THIRD the price, Emotiva A-5175:

Something tells me I'm on the right track here.
I will have much more control over the analogue board in the UDP-203 than in any A/V receiver.
Plus, all the unnecessary stuff is out the window going with the UDP-203.

Perhaps less is more.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
What do you expect to show or demonstrate from the posting of the various circuit board pics?
 
V

Venue

Junior Audioholic
What do you expect to show or demonstrate from the posting of the various circuit board pics?
I'll explain, can you see how many connection points there are on the boards? I can only assume and imagine how many further connection points there are along the analogue chain before it hits the speaker output terminals, the more terminals, the more noise you'll have, soldering is much better. There is much less knowledge about the circuits within these A/V receivers than the UDP-203/205, the OPPO units are much more common and famous among enthusiasts who like to tweak and improve their device they use as transport, in my case I plan to use it as a preamplifier, no less knowledge, nonetheless.

I see no voltage regulation circuits, or voltage regulators on the D/A boards, meaning, I cannot only send in the D/A board from an A/V receiver and have it improved, the whole unit needs to be shipped to measure the complete circuitry, with the UDP203/205 it's enough to send in the analogue board, the voltage regulation is done locally. The capacitors seem to be of inferior quality that what many prefer to put into their units, I hear a lot Panasonic, OS-CON, ELNA, Vishay, WILMA etc, I can tell you there's none of that in these AVR's.

The UDP203/205, in my case, the 203, seem like a much more simpler, leaner, solution as a preamplifier, everything I do in the OPPO will lead to better analogue performance if measured correctly, I plan to hire Cinemike (www.cinemike.de) for this labor, if you doubt his work, well, nice talking to you, I would never ever spend money on trying to modify (perhaps the word 'upgrade' is a word I should use instead) a D/A board from an AVR, there are so many boards that would need improvements in order to fully rectify the whole signal chain, for the same amount of money, if not less, I can get further in terms of improved SNR and distortion levels, and my usage that'll consist of a mixture between movies, concerts and music, I am a firm believer that the changes made, or effort put into the UDP-203, overlooking its performance, will be of a greater impact than any A/V receiver of choice.

Manufacturers don't sell pristine units, there are always improvements to be made, you shouldn't doubt it, secondly the UDP-203 measures better than most A/V receivers out there, which tells me it's a better platform to start looking into further improving the aspects of a multichannel output than any other device, I mean I already own it, no loss on my end, no extra expense. If you don't believe things can be done better, I don't know what to say to you, you're basically telling me I can purchase the cheapest A/V receiver out there and still not have issues, that's just not correct. Thirdly, why do you think, the more expensive of an AVR, the more components are put into the D/A boards? With only logic at hand, one could easily tell that the more components that's put on, the more thoughtout the circuitry has been made, compensating for what not, stabilizing, or filtering the circuit/circuits, i.e. channel/channels.

If there's any board within an AVR that should be compared to the UDP-203, it's the boards I've been posting, and looking at the UDP-203, I see no competition until you spend quite a bit of money on an AVR, I could purchase a dedicated power amplifier with a lot better specifications than the AVR would ever offer, unless spending a hilarious amount of money on something that I'd only be using to 50%, seeing all the unnecessary features I wouldn't be using, or simply turning them to OFF.

I mean if I'm on the wrong track here, you tell me straight.
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Sure, but can you hear the difference...?

Methinks not.
 
V

Venue

Junior Audioholic
So, all DAC's sound the same, then? That's the consensus around here?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'll explain, can you see how many connection points there are on the boards? I can only assume and imagine how many further connection points there are along the analogue chain before it hits the speaker output terminals, the more terminals, the more noise you'll have, soldering is much better. There is much less knowledge about the circuits within these A/V receivers than the UDP-203/205, the OPPO units are much more common and famous among enthusiasts who like to tweak and improve their device they use as transport, in my case I plan to use it as a preamplifier, no less knowledge, nonetheless.

I see no voltage regulation circuits, or voltage regulators on the D/A boards, meaning, I cannot only send in the D/A board from an A/V receiver and have it improved, the whole unit needs to be shipped to measure the complete circuitry, with the UDP203/205 it's enough to send in the analogue board, the voltage regulation is done locally. The capacitors seem to be of inferior quality that what many prefer to put into their units, I hear a lot Panasonic, OS-CON, ELNA, Vishay, WILMA etc, I can tell you there's none of that in these AVR's.

The UDP203/205, in my case, the 203, seem like a much more simpler, leaner, solution as a preamplifier, everything I do in the OPPO will lead to better analogue performance if measured correctly, I plan to hire Cinemike (www.cinemike.de) for this labor, if you doubt his work, well, nice talking to you, I would never ever spend money on trying to modify (perhaps the word 'upgrade' is a word I should use instead) a D/A board from an AVR, there are so many boards that would need improvements in order to fully rectify the whole signal chain, for the same amount of money, if not less, I can get further in terms of improved SNR and distortion levels, and my usage that'll consist of a mixture between movies, concerts and music, I am a firm believer that the changes made, or effort put into the UDP-203, overlooking its performance, will be of a greater impact than any A/V receiver of choice.

Manufacturers don't sell pristine units, there are always improvements to be made, you shouldn't doubt it, secondly the UDP-203 measures better than most A/V receivers out there, which tells me it's a better platform to start looking into further improving the aspects of a multichannel output than any other device, I mean I already own it, no loss on my end, no extra expense. If you don't believe things can be done better, I don't know what to say to you, you're basically telling me I can purchase the cheapest A/V receiver out there and still not have issues, that's just not correct. Thirdly, why do you think, the more expensive of an AVR, the more components are put into the D/A boards? With only logic at hand, one could easily tell that the more components that's put on, the more thoughtout the circuitry has been made, compensating for what not, stabilizing, or filtering the circuit/circuits, i.e. channel/channels.

If there's any board within an AVR that should be compared to the UDP-203, it's the boards I've been posting, and looking at the UDP-203, I see no competition until you spend quite a bit of money on an AVR, I could purchase a dedicated power amplifier with a lot better specifications than the AVR would ever offer, unless spending a hilarious amount of money on something that I'd only be using to 50%, seeing all the unnecessary features I wouldn't be using, or simply turning them to OFF.

I mean if I'm on the wrong track here, you tell me straight.
Wow that's a lot to unpack. "Imagine" was the word that stood out, and on your side. Never heard of sending in an existing consumer electronics board like in an avr to be sent in for "improvement". You sound like a tweeker who changes caps in a new speaker! I do have an Oppo 203 fwiw so I know what they're about.
 
V

Venue

Junior Audioholic
Well, sometimes 'tweaking' is cheaper/better, than purchasing something more expensive, what can I say?
It's either the UDP-203, or an expensive pre/pro, which I think you can figure out the costs involved.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Well, sometimes 'tweaking' is cheaper/better, than purchasing something more expensive, what can I say?
It's either the UDP-203, or an expensive pre/pro, which I think you can figure out the costs involved.
More speaking about tweeking existing gear (and that spelling has an appropriate connotation IME). Tweaking won't generally address the most important components IMO. You could use a well measuring avr like the Denon 3700 rather than a pre-pro, too. It ain't rocket science. But to try and make an audible difference on the 203 I think is just silly. I didn't bother with videos but doubt that would change my mind, audio subjects on video are generally not good (outside maybe of AH or ASR ones so far)....
 
V

Venue

Junior Audioholic
The UDP-203 beats X3700H out of the box, that's the whole point here, I don't have space to accomodate a device that's 7" just for processing, I'm limited in terms of height, the UDP-203 together with the Emotiva power amplifier leaves me just amount space, ample ventilation, what I believe to be great performance, I've never heard the analogue outputs of the 203, but looking at measurements it's beyond the Denon for processing, DPS's and room correction aside.

Have you compared the 203's analogue outputs with the 3600/3700?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Beats it audibly? Doubt it. Spec wise perhaps. Versatility not quite as much, let alone dsp options. Simplicity the 203 works fine (without tweeking). Good grief make up your mind, you seem to be immersed in unimportant minutiae....

ps All this for Klipsch speakers? Seriously?
 

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