Advice on Yamaha RX-V657 room set-up

[luiz gutierrez]

Greetings fellow aural compulsives,

This is my second attempt at posting; if you've seen some version of this e-mail, please excuse my straying fingers which sent the first attempt off into the ether or this space in truncated form.

After pondering the only two professional reviews on Yamaha's new RX-V657, both glowing, I've decided to purchase it to upgrade my home theater.

However, three nagging doubts linger, and I hope you knowledgeable people can dispel them for me.

1. The receiver puts out 95 bona fide watts (20-20,000, low THD, etc). My living room area is about 20x14, BUT it is part of a larger open space of about 45x25, with sloping ceiling up to 12 feet, with mostly hard surfaces to bounce off. My Paradigm speakers are about 90-91spl, my Hsu sub is self-powered. I listen to music and movies at 75-85 decibles on average.
Question: is the receiver sufficiently powered for a realistic movie experience (granted on a smaller scale than a theater obviously)?
2. Yamaha' s "presence" effect requires two extra front speakers for better depth, spacial cues, etc. Soundstage imaging is paramount to me in the movie experience (music,too).
Question: is the "presence" effect really better as claimed, or just advertising hype?
3. In my space, there is no way I can set up two speakers directly behind my listening position. The best I can do is my present set up, a 5.1, with the back speakers high and to each side, plus adding the two front "presence" speakers.
Question: am I wasting my money/time by upgrading my receiver (from a 3-year old Sony in the same price range (about $500 retail). Will the listening experience be significantly improved? My only complaint about the Sony is its vague spacial cues and its weak directional cues when representing on screen movement. (This may be due to my inability to get room calibration of the speakers done properly.)

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. As a newcomer to this forum I expect to participate fully in the future. I have been an aural compulsive (my other forms of compulsion are not relevant here!) for the last 40 years or so, and fondly look forward to the pleasures of the next 50.
Luiz

 

[jcPanny]

Yamaha Info.

Luiz,
I think you picked a good receiver. I just ordered one for my entry level HT except I ordered the HTR version (HTR-5860). Got it new for $326 shipped for Electronics Expo.

If you are willing to spend $500, go for the RX-V1500 model. These yamahas are know for their clean amplification section and the best/most DSP processing algorithms. I would expect a noticable improvement over the sony.

I have a room of similar dimensions and will be able to test out the receiver when I get it next week. I think that you will have no problem achieving very high SPLs with the receivers power and your efficient speakers.

For opinions on the value of the presence speakers, check this thread:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10549&highlight=presence
I would recommend testing the presence channels by hooking up an old or inexpensive pair of bookshelf speakers. If you like the effect/feature, than spend the money on a matching pair of spekaers. Several people in the thread seem to prefer the presence over the surround back speakers. In your case, it is a win win situation.

 

[luiz gutierrez]

Online Yamaha RX-V models:"grey" market?

Thanks for the informative reply to my question. The reference to the presence thread was also very useful. I think the RX-V657 will do nicely.

BUT the RX-V1600 just came out and THAT looks VERY good....any thoughts?

I'm wondering why you decided to get the HTR-5860 version instead of the RX-V657, since the RX line is supposed to be their premier line. It's supposed to be sold only in their dealerships, but I've found it online for about $350 on up, or about what you paid for yours.

Could it be that the online RX's are "grey" market (as in cameras, where the goods are imported directly and the manufacturer does not honor the warranty)?

Does anybody know the score on this?
Thanks,
Luiz

 

[jcPanny]

Yamaha RX-V series

Luiz,
I ordered the HTR version because it was cheeper, available online, and from an authorized dealer. The only feature missing that is found on the RX-V version is a zone 2 line output. I plan on using the speaker B terminals or Record Line Out if I want to connect any additional speakers.

You are correct about the Yamaha distribution model for the RX-V series. They are distributed mostly through Brick and Mortor audio stores. Most of the places selling this series online are not authorized dealers. I would recomend emailing or calling Yamaha to enquire if the seller is authorized before making my purchase.

For example, Electronics Expo is an authorized dealer and sells all of the HTR receivers online, but lists the RX-V products as retail items and must be purchased in their store.

Concerning the new RX-V1600 model, check this site for more information on the CEDIA pages. The only major new feature is HDMI switching. Unless you are willing to pay a lot extra for this feature, than I would take advantage of the lower prices on the RX-V1500 model which authorized dealers are now selling for about $500.

 

[luiz gutierrez]

Yamaha: The more you know, the less you know!

JC,

Thanks again for your reply, but now I'm more confused than ever!

So, both the RX-V657 and the HTR model are available at Electronics Expo, but you can only get the RX version by going to the store. Adding the plane ticket from California to the price makes it a no-brainer!

Therefore, is the price of the RX-V1500, listed at about $500, also only available by visiting beautiful downtown New Jersey?

Is there an HTR version of the RX-V1500?

Do you know of any online source for the RX line that is not "grey"?

Finally, I presume the RX-V1500 is a generation earlier than the HTR 5860.
If so, what improvements are in the 5860, or conversely, why would the 1500 be a better receiver? (THX?)

Finally, (really finally this time), if the RX line is their premier line, wouldn't it be better (better constructed?) than the HTR line?

Sorry for all these questions, but since I live in the High Sierra and have no stores in sight, you are now my de facto Yamaha expert. (Just kidding!)

Thanks again for your help.
Luiz

 

[Snap]

Luiz,
Check out this link to find you some Authorized On line dealers. The RX-Z line is the "top" of the line for Yammy. The HTR line is simular to the RX-V. It is like Denon has to lines that are very close. Like the AVR985 or the AVR-2105. (Not sure I got the right numbers) But long story short.....the HTR line is a line that is sold to more people. Wholesale Distributors etc. While the RX-V and RX-Z lines are more reserved for Yamaha Direct dealers.

DISCLAIMER: This is my understanding of how the system works.

Yamaha is very strick on who they sell to and are VERY SERIOUS about esales. I wonder about the 1500 being only 500 bucks. If you can hold out you might want to wait till Jan and get the new 1600. It has a ton of cool features that would be worth waiting for.
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/dealer.aspx

 

[jcPanny]

Yamaha model info.

JC,

Thanks again for your reply, but now I'm more confused than ever!

So, both the RX-V657 and the HTR model are available at Electronics Expo, but you can only get the RX version by going to the store. Adding the plane ticket from California to the price makes it a no-brainer!

Therefore, is the price of the RX-V1500, listed at about $500, also only available by visiting beautiful downtown New Jersey?

Is there an HTR version of the RX-V1500?

Do you know of any online source for the RX line that is not "grey"?

Finally, I presume the RX-V1500 is a generation earlier than the HTR 5860.
If so, what improvements are in the 5860, or conversely, why would the 1500 be a better receiver? (THX?)

Finally, (really finally this time), if the RX line is their premier line, wouldn't it be better (better constructed?) than the HTR line?

Sorry for all these questions, but since I live in the High Sierra and have no stores in sight, you are now my de facto Yamaha expert. (Just kidding!)

Thanks again for your help.
Luiz

Luiz,
I would give the dealer a call. They will probably make retail sales over the phone, but not on the internet. PM me if you want a contact # and extension.

Concerning the HTR and RX-V models, check the Yamaha website for a complete list of features. Also, read the disclaimer about HTR and RX-V models on the site. Basically the face plate is different and they change a few minor features. All the internal parts are the same and it is assembled at the same factory. The distribution model is different.
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/receivers/receiver_main.htm

The RX-V1500 is similar to the HTR-5890. The 1500 has more zone features and THX while the 5890 has XM radio built in. The 1500 and 2500 have a bigger transformer and higher quality components than lower Yamaha models. They also make great pre-amplifiers. Read Audioholics reviews on these models.

If you are really excited about HDMI switching then wait for the new RX-V1600 model, but at $1,300 it seams way out of your $500 budget.

 

[James02]

Speakers that are 90+ db per watt are fairly efficient and can fill a large room with nominal power. The presence channels do add something but mainly a larger front soundstage like a big screen theatre. The rear speakers seem to have more of an effect of localizing sounds around the listening position more. The newest Yamahas seem to be very good at enveloping you in the sound: for example on Master and Commander you can hear footsteps on the deck above you and this is with a 5.1 setup. I am currently using a Yamaha 2500 with Athena Audition Series speakers and it can be very loud but still clean and clear. Note the 5890 and the 1500 are the same but the 2500 and up are only available at Yamaha dealers.

James

James

 

[luiz gutierrez]

Yamaha: HTR vs RX model lines:"similar" or identical?

Hi Snap, JC, and James,

Thanks for your answers. After trying to digest your information, the question of whether the HTR 5860 is IDENTICAL internally (I don't really care about the cosmetics), and therefore has an IDENTICAL SOUND to the RX-V657, comes back.

Reading the Yamaha site like a lawyer, on the difference between the two, I see that the overall impression is to suggest that the two are IDENTICAL except for cosmetics. But the fine print only says the AMPS are identical, nothing else, the rest is "similar". Well, similar is not identical, and while the amps may be the same, any number of other design, wiring or construction differences would result in differences of sound.

My research tells me that the HTR version came out in April while the RX vesion didn't come out until August. Could Yamaha have been giving the consumer line a test drive, then fixing the bugs before releasing their Dealer-proud RX version in August?

I can't see the logic of selling an IDENTICAL receiver for $330 and another for $500 just for the privilege of talking to a salesperson and the resulting snob value of having an RX over an HTR. Most people visiting my house don't know the difference between a Yamaha and a Samsung anyway, although everyone would know that the 350Z in my garage is not a Yugo.

So, I guess it gets down to this: is the SOUND identical (not just similar) between the two models? My wife is similar to my mother, but certainly not identical!

If anyone can answer that question with authority, I'm done, and thank you very much.
Luiz

 

[James02]

I did extensive comparsion between the 5890 and the 1500 and all I found was that they put a different face plate on the front plus the specs are rated differently but they were identical in all features. I don't know about the other models but I think they are just labelled different. The Yamaha dealers were always $100 higher than say Future Shop. I only bought a 2500 because I wanted the additional features it offered plus I found a dealer in Owen Sound Ontario who made me an offer I couldn't refuse.

James

 

[luiz gutierrez]

James,

Thanks, that's good news.
Luiz

 

[jcPanny]

HTR vs. RXV

Luis,

From Yamaha Site:
"The RX-V line and the HTR line are produced in the same Yamaha factory using high quality parts throughout. The RX-V and equivalent HTR models have the same warranty periods, the same manufacturer's suggested retail price, similar features, and similar remote control units."

Yes the HTR-5860 and the RX-V657 will sound the same and are built using the same parts. The only feature difference I am aware of is a zone 2 output and IR port on the RX-V657. Yamaha can not afford to maintain two similar product lines with different internal parts, this is why they only change the face plate and sometimes a couple connectors on the back. In fact, the RX-V and HTR models have the same retail price. The distribution method of the HTR models is what allows you to find lower prices due to less dealer markup.

Also, received my HTR-5860 yeasterday and it sounds great. I don't have time for a professional setup or review as I am getting ready for a big trip. The receiver did ship on time from electronics expo and was double boxed to prevent damage.

FYI, Yahama recently posted some info on their site about the new 1600 and 2600 models. At $1,100 I don't think the new 1600 is worth twice as much as the previous model for the HDMI features.

 

[luiz gutierrez]

Yamaha RX-V657 and HTR-5860

JC,

Thanks for the information on why the two models have identical internal parts, and why they have the same retail price but can be sold for different prices. That all makes sense. I'll take your word that the receiver sounds fine. Between the grey market RX and the legit HTR, after a mack warranty is factored in, the RX comes out about $50 more. I don't need zone 2 since I have complete sound systems in my listening room and my rec room for music only. This one would be primarily for movie sound effects. For a receiver which can be had for about $325, the numbers and logic point me to the HTR version.

I have bought extensive digital camera equipment from B&K, and its price is comparable to Electronics. They are also an authorized dealer, so I may go there, unless you can think of a better reason for me to go with Electronics.

Thanks for all your help, and maybe after I've had a chance to test drive it, we could compare impressions for the benefit of others.
Cheers,
Luiz