Advice on Powering A Very Large HT Room?

[JJNab]

Hi all,

I moved a couple years ago and the new place had no good spot for a HT setup. I ended up putting a Samsung plasma tv over my LR fireplace and placing the speakers where I could. The center channel is right below the tv, but my front R and L speakers had to go on top of built-in cabinets about 7 feet off the ground. These are floorstanding B&W 603S2's. I put them on their sides and tilted them down toward the listener a little. The side speakers are fine, just behind the listening area and mounted on 30 inch stands. The back speakers, though, are about 30 feet behind the listening area atop some kitchen cabinets.

To make it all worse, the listening area has a cathedral ceiling almost 25 ft high.

When I installed the system, I got a new Yamaha HTR-5890 to power it, and the sound has always been thin and wimpy.

I am considering replacing the 5890 with something like the RX-V3800 or a comparable Onkyo, but do you all think that will even fix the problem? Or are my speaker setup and room dimensions so bad that I have to go to separate amps to get any power? Or maybe there is something wrong with the 5890 unit itself? It's rated as pretty powerful, but in fact is really really wimpy sounding, no matter where you listen from. (I had an old 5640, rated much lower, that must have been 10 times as loud.)

Thanks very much for any thoughts on this,

John

 

[bandphan]

consider adding/upgrading speakers*, external power and room treatments. The speakers you have are nice and are probably capable so would be my last consideration. Expanding to 7.xx would help with the feel

 

[mazersteven]

From your description IMO it's not your receiver that is the problem. It's speaker placement that I think is the issue. But I could be wrong.

How about a few photos?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

From your description IMO it's not your receiver that is the problem. It's speaker placement that I think is the issue. But I could be wrong.

I agree 100%. Speaker placement + possible room acoustics.

 

[fmw]

You didn't say how big the room is or how far you plan to sit from the speakers. The high ceiling is a plus, not a negative and doesn't have much impact on the required power. It will get rid of a lot of the acoustic reflections low ceilings cause. Sounds like you will be in fine shape.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hi all,
... but my front R and L speakers had to go on top of built-in cabinets about 7 feet off the ground. ... I put them on their sides and tilted them down toward the listener a little.
John

As others have mentioned, speaker location so high, plus the speakers being on their sides. Remember, you have oriented the speakers 90 degrees. So, your response horizontally all of a sudden has become what the speakers vertical +/- response usually is, poor.
Why not do an experiment, if you can. Place those left and right speakers on the floor, standing up, and see how they sound. then we'll go from there.

 

[JJNab]

Thanks very much for the feedback, guys. Unfortunately, speaker placement is pretty much dictated by the floor plan of my house, which hardly gives you space to hang a picture, much less lay out a HT system.

The tv is in the living room, which flows without break into the kitchen (which then flows into the breakfast room). The tv is on the east wall above the fireplace. On either side of the fireplace built-ins (including a wet bar and the cabinets where I keep my components) take up the entire rest of the wall. The front speakers sit atop these. The south wall is all glass windows and doors (I do have curtains over them). The north wall is mainly an open stairway to the second floor. There is no west wall until you hit the back of the kitchen, which is where the rear surrounds are.

The effective listening area is the LR + K, and is about 15' x 40'. The viewing area is 11' from the tv and front speakers and center channel, 6' from the side speakers, and 27' from the rear surrounds. The LR portion has the cathedral ceiling, K does not.

Mytrycrafts, I'd like to put the main speakers on the floor standing up, as you suggest, but they would then block the cabinets or the fireplace, all of which are used regularly. Standing the speakers on top of the cabinets rather than laying them flat seems to do no good for the sound, you just lose more of it to the second floor.

Do you all think there is anything I can do to improve the sound of this system without moving the front speakers? Your comments have convinced me that buying a new receiver is unnecessary, but would a separate two-channel amp for the front speakers be a good idea? Would it be better NOT to have floorstanders up there for any reason? I could put the side speakers up there and use the floorstanders as sides, I suppose. I very much appreciate any more thoughts you have on this.

John

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks very much for the feedback, guys. Unfortunately, speaker placement is pretty much dictated by the floor plan of my house, which hardly gives you space to hang a picture, much less lay out a HT system.

The tv is in the living room, which flows without break into the kitchen (which then flows into the breakfast room). The tv is on the east wall above the fireplace. On either side of the fireplace built-ins (including a wet bar and the cabinets where I keep my components) take up the entire rest of the wall. The front speakers sit atop these. The south wall is all glass windows and doors (I do have curtains over them). The north wall is mainly an open stairway to the second floor. There is no west wall until you hit the back of the kitchen, which is where the rear surrounds are.

The effective listening area is the LR + K, and is about 15' x 40'. The viewing area is 11' from the tv and front speakers and center channel, 6' from the side speakers, and 27' from the rear surrounds. The LR portion has the cathedral ceiling, K does not.

Mytrycrafts, I'd like to put the main speakers on the floor standing up, as you suggest, but they would then block the cabinets or the fireplace, all of which are used regularly. Standing the speakers on top of the cabinets rather than laying them flat seems to do no good for the sound, you just lose more of it to the second floor.

Do you all think there is anything I can do to improve the sound of this system without moving the front speakers? Your comments have convinced me that buying a new receiver is unnecessary, but would a separate two-channel amp for the front speakers be a good idea? Would it be better NOT to have floorstanders up there for any reason? I could put the side speakers up there and use the floorstanders as sides, I suppose. I very much appreciate any more thoughts you have on this.

John

I think you have to make a choice. You either have to do some serious reconstruction to that room, or put the HT in a different room.

You are wasting time and money putting speakers that high in the air on their sides. As pointed out you can not place speakers on their sides.

At a minimum I think those built in have to go, and the storage recaptured some place else.

Open plan areas like that seldom produce good results.

A custom system, with custom speakers designed for the space might help, but even then, the spl in the kitchen and through out the house gets too high.

What other spaces, such as a basement, do you have that might be more promising? A stated before pictures would be very helpful.

And buy the way don't run your TV when the fireplace is on.

 

[mtrycrafts]

....
Mytrycrafts, I'd like to put the main speakers on the floor standing up, as you suggest, but they would then block the cabinets or the fireplace, all of which are used regularly. .

John

I understand this, that is why I suggested you do a short term experiment to see how that speaker performs for you if it were in is designed position, standing up. I am willing to bet it would perform as designed

Perhaps bookshelf speakers on the sides of the TV in the book shelves standing up?

 

[JJNab]

Thanks for the frank assessment, TLS Guy. I think you're right. Mtrycrafts, the receiver placement and in-wall speaker wiring make it hard to do exactly as you suggested (believe it or not, this was a pro install), but I took the fronts down and hooked them up to my HK3480 and you're right, they're just fine. I replaced them with a pair of Infinity bookshelf speakers that I had lying around. They're not great speakers, but they're built very deep relative to their height, so I was able to angle them steeply toward the listener. The net effect is that the system does sound marginally better.

I'll stop trying to improve this system now, and just look forward even more to the day when I can finally finish my basement.

Thanks again,

John

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks for the frank assessment, TLS Guy. I think you're right. Mtrycrafts, the receiver placement and in-wall speaker wiring make it hard to do exactly as you suggested (believe it or not, this was a pro install), but I took the fronts down and hooked them up to my HK3480 and you're right, they're just fine. I replaced them with a pair of Infinity bookshelf speakers that I had lying around. They're not great speakers, but they're built very deep relative to their height, so I was able to angle them steeply toward the listener. The net effect is that the system does sound marginally better.

I'll stop trying to improve this system now, and just look forward even more to the day when I can finally finish my basement.

Thanks again,

John

Great. this experiment showed you that it was not your speakers, but where and how they were installed. Unfortunately, that room setup and location had an impact, a pretty large one.
It appears that your only alternative from here on out is your basement which, hopefully can be set up better