Advice needed on streaming and zone 3 usage

[Rab Paterson]

Hi there,

this is my first post and I'm looking for some advice so thanks in advance for any and all replies - they'll all be much appreciated. Anyway to my problem. Here's my current setup and the issues I'm looking to solve.

At home in my 2nd floor office space (and it's open to the dining room underneath) I have a MacPro with 4x2Tb drives (2 in use and 2 for backups) and all my music (around 20,000 songs and some music videos and movies) on my iTunes there, with the music encoded at 192kbs or higher as these are ripped versions of my CD's, iTunes purchases or music mp3's friends have given me. The MacPro is also connected via the rear audio out socket to the L/R input on an old Onkyo FR-V3 mini all in one CD/MD/Tuner/Amp with two matching Onkyo bookshelf speakers. The MacPro is connected to the internet via a Cat 7 cable directly from my AirMac Extreme (6th generation newest model) which also connects to two older AirMac Extremes (5th Generation) - one in my living room and one in my bedroom with both of these two older AirMac Extreme's also connected to Apple TV's and Denon AVR's and LED TV's.

The living room set up has a Denon AVR X-4000 currently running a 7.2 speaker set up (2x DENON SC-T55XG front main speakers, 1x Denon SC-C55XG centre speaker, 2x Denon DSW 33XG subwoofers, and 4x Denon 5SC A55XG for surround and surround rear speakers. This set-up runs a 55" Toshiba LED 3D TV via the HDMI ARC connection in Zone 1 and also Hulu, Netflicks, Apple Movies and my streamed iTunes from my MacPro upstairs from the Apple TV in the living room connected via the 5th Gen Airport Extreme. It also runs my Cable/Satellite box, a PS3 and a Denon DBT 1713UD DVD player and overall I am fairly happy with how the system performs. To improve it I also recently picked up a Denon PMA-50 and have 2 more Denon 5SC A55XG speakers inbound so I can run them via the X4000's pre-out to make the system a 9.2 one and hopefully that setup will be straightforward. And I plan to later add a Denon DP-500M turntable and a Denon DN-300Z to enable friends to connect their phones / tablets / players and play them via bluetooth when they visit. That should round out the inputs part of my system.

Question 1 is as my living room is long and narrow (3.5m wide x 7.25m long) would it be better to have the incoming last 2 speakers set up as front height rather than front wide? My living room is a 'lean to' type extension on the side of the main part of the house, so the ceiling is not flat as the roof slopes from about over 3m high on the left side (the inside part joining the rest of the room) lengthwise to about 2.5 m on the right - the outermost part of the house.

Question 2 is on the outside part of the outermost wall of the living room I have two older Bose 151SE outdoor speakers mounted pointing towards the garden, but they are not connected to anything at the moment as the really old little amp I used to use with them exclusively finally died. So now I have to probably buy a new amp if I continue using them the way I did beofre. But first I want to know is if there is any way I can use the outdoor speakers to play the same music as the X4000 at the same time, either by connecting them to the X4000 in the last unused set of speaker binding posts as it has 11 and I'm only using 9 in the home cinema set up. Or by having a 2nd PMA-50 run them and somehow hooking it to the X4000 along with the first PMA still being in the 9.2 setup. If this is possible in any way will the iTunes sound also utilise the 9.2 speaker setup while using the outside ones or will it default to the 'stereo all zones' (only using large front speakers) I read that the X4000 can do for 3 zones playback?

Question 3 is if 2 above is not possible then can I buy something like maybe a pair of Denon DNP-720AE network players (one connected to the X4000 and the other connected to a 2nd PMA-50 and the outside speakers) to play the streamed iTunes library in sync in the living room and outdoors? Or maybe a set of Sonos or BlueSound or Bose streaming boxes or something like that to connect to the Bose outdoor speakers to make the streamed music from the outside speakers play in sync with the inside music? If that is possible could that streaming box setup also be used to connect the Onkyo and the Macpro (where most of the music will be originally streamed from via Apple TV to the X4000 anyway) if I buy another Sonos or BlueSound or Bose streaming box to connect via wifi / bluetooth to the ones hooked up in the living room / outdoor speakers? Lastly I read that Sonos boxes max out at 92kbs but BlueSound is higher (don't know how much) and don't know about Bose. So any advice here (if this is the way to go with my problem) would be most welcome.

Question 4 is if what I want to do in 3 (above) is possible can more speakers (Sonos or BlueSound or Bose ones) be added to my dining room to also play the music in sync? And if I do go the streaming (Sonos or BlueSound or Bose) route can these also play different music in different rooms? If so what boxes do I need for that setup?

I've tried to be as detailed here as possible but feel free to ask for more info, and any advice will be most welcome as I'm fairly new to network streaming sound and multi-zone playback. But I've been into Hifi for a while though. A long time ago in a land far, far away from Japan (where I now live) I had a Michell Syncro record player with a Rega RB 300 arm and Audio Technica MC cartridge, AudioLab 8000C & P pre and power amps, a Mission PCM 7000 CD player, and two Tannoy Jupiter speakers with monster cable. Life, and audio setups were so much simpler then!!!

Thanks in advance again for any advice.

Best,

Rab

 

[KenM10759]

Any Bluesound device can stream Tidal Hi-Fi which is a bit rate of 1411kbps. And full decode of MQA files. Sonos can't, but will handle all the low res stuff you got.

 

[Rab Paterson]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for that info. Bluesound looks good in general though not sure what exact components I'd need to get it to play with my current Denon and Bose speakers. And I had a look at Tidal but unfortunately, it's not available in Japan yet even though Softbank (one of the big 3 mobile carriers here) invested in it recently.

 

[KenM10759]

Bluesound probably isn't for you if you're big on iTunes. Sonos is a good system for that, well integrated. They like you to use their own amps and speakers, though it's not required. Others here who are more Apple friendly than me will pitch in to help. I'm absolutely the most wrong guy when it come to I-Anything.

 

[Rab Paterson]

As a Mac User I started using iTunes by default as it was on my Macs and easy to use when I bought them when I came to Japan back in the day. Now it interfaces easily enough for my kids to use with my Apple TV's, iPod, computer, iPads etc. But did like the look of the Bluesound Vault2 for the home as I could upload all my CD's into it at a much higher sound quality as it supports this and has a large HD from what I saw on their site. Only issue would be the other 70% of my music on my iTunes not from my CD collection, some of which is 320 kbps, which iTunes might not be making the most of at present. Is there an alternative music app player you recommend for Apple (besides the streaming services like Spotify, Tidal etc)?

 

[KenM10759]

The Bluesound Vault 2 (which I own and love) can also access all the music on any other storage device that's on a shared network. I have a 2TB drive with music on it that is essentially a NAS because as long as my network is up, the Vault 2 can get it.

Ripping CD's is also nearly effortless with it. The only thing that would make it easier is if the unit could open those jewel cases, take the CD out and rip it, then return it to the jewel case.

 

[Rab Paterson]

Thanks again for the info and help.

So to clarify I'd load all my music directly into a Vault 2 by ripping my CD's directly, and presumably, it can copy any other music files on a HD or mac via usb or wifi? And it can then be cabled directly to my Denon X4000 as one of its inputs (I guess Toslink optical audio would be best, or standard coax l/r cables failing that going be what I see on the read of the Vault 2) but could it also just connect to the X4000 via the wifi network if I have a Denon network player or directly to the X4000? Or would that just downgrade the Vault 2 sound a bit compared to the Toslink connection?

And is there any way it can export to more than one amp at a time if I bought another PMA-50 for the outside Bose speakers and Onkyo speakers upstairs? Or would I need a PowerNode 2 or it's own extra wifi speakers for sound in other rooms / outside for that?

Also if I'm understanding you correctly the Vault could also access and stream any music on any of my macs or other devices or friends devices if they are also on my home wifi network? If it can do all this then that sounds exactly what I'm looking for. Do you also use the Bluesound speakers and PowerNode 2? If so how do the speakers sound?

 

[KenM10759]

Rip CD's, leave digital files where they are. It doesn't copy them, it PLAYS them doing the digital-analog conversion with it's high quality DAC. Be aware that when you have the Bluesound system it works best when your own library files are structured by artist then album. The JPEG files associated with most CD's is used to show up on your iPad or phone, so random mixed files show up as "Unknown Artist" with no artwork. Some people spend the time to add the JPEG and edit metadata, I don't have the patience. I've deleted most of that music as I have plenty of actual identified files.

You can use either the analog or Toslink output to the Denon. I prefer the analog output because then you're using that good DAC. Once the signal is at the Denon you can use it's own pre-amp outputs to distribute the signal to other amps. If you didn't need to play audio from BluRay/DVD disks out to other speaker sets, the Powernode 2 will also access all library files (including those on the Vault 2) and most streaming services just like the Vault 2, it just doesn't have it's own storage or ability to rip. BTW, iTunes is not yet one of those streaming services. It can output 60 watts per channel @ 8Ω to any passive speaker, doesn't have to be Bluesound speakers. Use what you got for now, upgrade those Bose 151's at some point. I can't imagine the Onkyo speaker being any better either.

I had until recently a second 5.1 system in my upstairs guest room. Because that system had it's own receiver I used a Node (not Powernode) to access library files and streaming. I gave the system to my daughter when she finally moved out (again) as a parting gift in the hopes that she won't bounce back again.