Adding a flagship stereo pre pro to AVR

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Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
if I use a new preamp for all 2 channel music, and send the stereo preamp to an AVR which is connected to a 5 channel amp will there be a loss in quality going through the AVR to the amplifier?

Looking at an RC-1590 to connect to RSX-1057 which connects to the RMB-1075

All Rotel components speakers are B&W 7 series 704s HTM7 center and 705s surrounds.

Seems stupid to ask and cruchfield online chat person said not at all just verifying. Thanks my first post ever here.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Not sure another preamp is worth it. Doubt there is any audible difference between the two.
 
S

Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
The AVR is equal in sound to their flagship 2 channel preamp? This seems odd? Not better DAC etc..... also HDMI connections will be added the AVR is simply Video switching hdmi 1.1
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Why do you think a different pre-amp is needed? What specific connections are you planning on?
 
S

Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
Why do you think a different pre-amp is needed? What specific connections are you planning on?
I wanted the phono usb blue tooth and the balance inputs and outputs and the DAC chip.

My only question was running a flagship model through an AVR to utilize the same amp and speakers for my2 channel music and keeping my 5.1 theater set up the way it is. A new pre pro surround sound receiver by Rotel is $$$$$$
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I wanted the phono usb blue tooth and the balance inputs and outputs and the DAC chip.

My only question was running a flagship model through an AVR to utilize the same amp and speakers for my2 channel music and keeping my 5.1 theater set up the way it is. A new pre pro surround sound receiver by Rotel is $$$$$$
Analog connection then? You have multich inputs on the avr that bypass processing?
 
S

Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
Yes I do. So the signal will not be affected correct?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Most likely not to a level that is audible.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yes I do. So the signal will not be affected correct?
The whole reason you wanted to add the preamp to the AVR is because you think the AVR is the weak link or bottleneck ?

You think the preamp will sound better than the AVR?

If so, your system is only as strong as its weakest link.

If you connect the preamp to the AVR, then your system will only sound as good as your AVR, no more.

Thus, it makes no sense to connect the preamp to the AVR if your only goal is to improve sound quality.

If your goal is only to increase the number of device inputs because there is no way to connect the extra devices to the AVR alone, then that's okay.

Some people will never believe this, but I’ve compared AVR to high-end preamps and the preamps don’t sound any better.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yes I do. So the signal will not be affected correct?
The more gear in the chain the more chance for signal to be affected. The minimal processing thing for an analog circuit in an avr is often a preference, but if you did have the extra processing it may not be audible either in any case as was pointed out...
 
S

Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
So using RCA splitters for a 2 channel system to share the same amplifier might be the best option.
 
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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
if I use a new preamp for all 2 channel music, and send the stereo preamp to an AVR which is connected to a 5 channel amp will there be a loss in quality going through the AVR to the amplifier?
this makes zero sense ??
 
S

Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
The question if there will be a loss in audio signal from a preamp to an AVR to an amplifier makes no sense? It is a question.
 
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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
The question if there will be a loss in audion from a preamp to an AVR to an amplifier makes no sense? It is a question.
why would you bother with a 2 channel preamp 'unless' you feel your AVR is inferior and if you did then why would you run 'anything' through it, makes no sense in my book !
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
if I use a new preamp for all 2 channel music, and send the stereo preamp to an AVR which is connected to a 5 channel amp will there be a loss in quality going through the AVR to the amplifier?

Looking at an RC-1590 to connect to RSX-1057 which connects to the RMB-1075

All Rotel components speakers are B&W 7 series 704s HTM7 center and 705s surrounds.

Seems stupid to ask and cruchfield online chat person said not at all just verifying. Thanks my first post ever here.
I think the Crutchfield rep is correct in saying that running the pre-pro through your AVR will not cause ab audible loss of quality! However, the real question is will it result in an audible improvement, and the answer is no, you are just adding any additional noise from the Pre-pro to whatever noise your AVR adds to the signal. Good quality vintage electronics from the 70's had already gotten distortions well below audible limits, so any decent audio company such as Rotel will still be inaudible even if you compound the sources of distortion.

The AVR is equal in sound to their flagship 2 channel preamp? This seems odd? Not better DAC etc..... also HDMI connections will be added the AVR is simply Video switching hdmi 1.1
High quality DACs were in production in the 80's! We all know how much more processing power you can buy today for much less than what it cost in the 80's. Today's inexpensive DAC's as used in AVR's by decent companies (such as Rotel) do an excellent job. There are super-duper DAC's that incorporate some type of theoretical improvement(s) over a less expensive option, but when you start considering how audible the difference is, it is like arguing over which supercar is faster when you will only be driving it inside your subdivision with a 25 mph limit!

So using RCA splitters for a 2 channel system to share the same amplifier might be the best option.
That is a difficult question to answer, but I would generally say "don't do this"!
Difficult, because it depends on the unique design of your gear.
The reason is the signal from your 2 channel pre-pro will not only be going to the amp, but it will also be going to he AVR.
I did this (not exactly the same setup, but close enough) once and discovered that if I turned on the unused unit it seemed to work fine (I did not notice sound quality issues). However, if I left the unused unit off, the signal apparently went into the unpowered unit, got all garbled, and the signal fed to the amp was distorted. This was Marantz geear, and I suspect your Rotel pre-outs will also have some way of not allowing a signal going into it and getting jumbled up, but no guarantees!

If you want to improve your sound, you should be looking at changing speakers or adding room treatments! Speakers and room acoustics have far more effect on sound quality than the difference between a mid-level AVR and a top-level pre-pro (assuming all amps are properly able to drive your speakers without audible distortion/clipping)!
 
S

Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
why would you bother with a 2 channel preamp 'unless' you feel your AVR is inferior and if you did then why would you run 'anything' through it, makes no sense in my book !
Because I have my Apple TV and Blu Ray player Home theater system going to the AVR, witch is going to all of the amplifier inputs. I do not want to spend $4000 on Rotel’s latest surround sound processor when I am looking only to upgrade my 2-channel, and therin lies the only question “will the signal degrade going through a receiver which feeds the 5 channel amp”

It is almost a yes or no answer, some said yes but probably not audible, chuchfield chat said absolutely not which I wasn’t sure I believed. You are asking why, and I am saying so I can use my same amplifier and tower speakers for my home theater system and for 2 -channel listening.

The question makes sense if you understand why I am considering connecting a new component this way.
 
S

Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
I think the Crutchfield rep is correct in saying that running the pre-pro through your AVR will not cause ab audible loss of quality! However, the real question is will it result in an audible improvement, and the answer is no, you are just adding any additional noise from the Pre-pro to whatever noise your AVR adds to the signal. Good quality vintage electronics from the 70's had already gotten distortions well below audible limits, so any decent audio company such as Rotel will still be inaudible even if you compound the sources of distortion.


High quality DACs were in production in the 80's! We all know how much more processing power you can buy today for much less than what it cost in the 80's. Today's inexpensive DAC's as used in AVR's by decent companies (such as Rotel) do an excellent job. There are super-duper DAC's that incorporate some type of theoretical improvement(s) over a less expensive option, but when you start considering how audible the difference is, it is like arguing over which supercar is faster when you will only be driving it inside your subdivision with a 25 mph limit!


That is a difficult question to answer, but I would generally say "don't do this"!
Difficult, because it depends on the unique design of your gear.
The reason is the signal from your 2 channel pre-pro will not only be going to the amp, but it will also be going to he AVR.
I did this (not exactly the same setup, but close enough) once and discovered that if I turned on the unused unit it seemed to work fine (I did not notice sound quality issues). However, if I left the unused unit off, the signal apparently went into the unpowered unit, got all garbled, and the signal fed to the amp was distorted. This was Marantz geear, and I suspect your Rotel pre-outs will also have some way of not allowing a signal going into it and getting jumbled up, but no guarantees!

If you want to improve your sound, you should be looking at changing speakers or adding room treatments! Speakers and room acoustics have far more effect on sound quality than the difference between a mid-level AVR and a top-level pre-pro (assuming all amps are properly able to drive your speakers without audible distortion/clipping)!
The room treatments are solid I am sure I can tweak a few things but the acoustics IMHO are pretty damn good velvet floor to ceiling drapes on back and side wall, wood floors with an area rug on floor and a sectional couch with pillows. I am pretty happy listening to music in this room and watching movies as well.

My next upgrade might be the diamond series B&W towers at $9,000 a pair and not matching center channel or surrounds it would add up if upgrading all 5 speakers.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Because I have my Apple TV and Blu Ray player Home theater system going to the AVR, witch is going to all of the amplifier inputs.
are not those inputs HDMI ? if so, then why wouldn't you have inputs (RCA) for your TT and Dac ?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The question if there will be a loss in audio signal from a preamp to an AVR to an amplifier makes no sense? It is a question.
If you connect then new preamp to the 2 channel analog inputs you can then use the analog bypass mode to bypass all of the digital circuitry of the AVR. Or you can use the multi channel analog inputs. There shouldn't be any audio loss. The stereo analog bypass mode is there for you do what you want to do now, except I am not sure if you need a full blown preamp when you have a decent AVR already. Why not just get an external DAC headphone amp, such as Opp's Sonica?
 
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