Acoustically Transparent Screen Options?

[tomd51]

Here's the deal: I'm trying to find a 92" to 100" 16:9 format acoustically transparent screen so that I can use my existing RPTV for normal use and use an electric drop-down screen for movie/specialty viewing while leaving my center channel speaker in it's current location mounted on top of the RPTV. In some research to this point, it seems that there are a few out there, but it looks like there aren't many that I can find that are worthwhile and aren't more than double the price of my Mitsubishi HC3000 projector.

While I realize it may come down to me spending more on the screen than the projector, I'd like to keep the pricing reasonable in comparison to the cost of the PJ. At the same time, I don't want to compromise so heavily on the quality of the screen where it's not even worth going this route. It'll be used in a dedicated home theater in my finished basement, so light control is not an issue.

So far, some possible ones I've come across are from Seymour AV and Elite CineTension2, both of these boarding or exceeding twice as much as the PJ. There's also Screen Research's ClearPix2, however I don't know much about it nor pricing for it.

If anyone can provide any input on these or other acoustically transparent screens, I'd greatly appreciate it... -TD

 

[jostenmeat]

This will be tough, Tom. First of all, the first thing BMX might say is that you will want tab tensioned or else you will suffer waving. That right there blows the budget if you followed his advice.

He would also let you know that being electric has absolutely nothing to do with the screen's susceptibility or lack thereof in waving. IOW, you can save by getting a manual.

Good AT screens aren't cheap, you're right. The two techs I know people like are weaves and micro-perf.

 

[tomd51]

Thanks josten, I think you're confirming my concerns are that what I'm looking for might not be do-able based on my criteria...

The Elite I'd noted I believe is tab-tensioned, AT and is electric, but as I mentioned in my initial post, it pretty much shoots the budget if not more. While I don't necessarily need it to be an electric screen, Senor Manuel would be just fine by me, I haven't come across any manual tab-tensioned AT screen options.

I figured or hoped BMXTRIX would chime in once he's seen this thread, but my fear is I'm hoping to find something that doesn't exist, or at least doesn't yet.

We'll see if anyone else can chime in here... -TD

 

[ErinH]

subscribed.

I Was actually looking to do the same and put my center behind the screen.

I'd like to see what the suggestions are. I'm budget conscious too.

 

[lsiberian]

Why not just ditch the TV? If your PJ has enough lumens and you can keep a lot of ambient light out of the room then you don't even need a tv. A decent lumen output even with some ambient light pretty much eliminates the need for a TV IMO. Good light control eliminates the need for a TV. I do this by selecting places for a lamp that don't effect the picture but still light some of the room.

I suggest a fixed frame screen wall mounted with a center on a stand below the screen angled toward the listener. Sell your old RPTV and use the funds for extra lamps or doing light control if necessary.

Thanks,
J. D.

 

[jostenmeat]

Tom/Erin, while my advice would differ compared to Isberian, I concur that there are other ways to go about this. It is quite possible that a different solution would yield better results as well.

If you could do three identical mains across the front, you would have, IMO, achieved a sort of personal holy grail of sorts.

A manual screen that drops just to the top of the center. No longer need be AT. In fact, not even tab tensioned if you use the same material that I do, DaLite hipower. Very heavy, emulsified with glass beads, it's not even offered as tab tensioned. Much more resistant to waving (though you will catch a spot here and there, it's subtle and rare; trust me, my screen is huge).

Flat panel 42" Pana plasma has been $600 NIB for longer than I can remember. Add $300 for the screen. Say, $300(?) for the center speaker. That's $1,200. OK, add RF remote system $80, very long HDMI cord $40, let's see...

Have your cake, eat it. Get a second cake, eat that too. Burp. Go to restroom.

 

[lsiberian]

Tom/Erin, while my advice would differ compared to Isberian, I concur that there are other ways to go about this. It is quite possible that a different solution would yield better results as well.

If you could do three identical mains across the front, you would have, IMO, achieved a sort of personal holy grail of sorts.

A manual screen that drops just to the top of the center. No longer need be AT. In fact, not even tab tensioned if you use the same material that I do, DaLite hipower. Very heavy, emulsified with glass beads, it's not even offered as tab tensioned. Much more resistant to waving (though you will catch a spot here and there, it's subtle and rare; trust me, my screen is huge).

Flat panel 42" Pana plasma has been $600 NIB for longer than I can remember. Add $300 for the screen. Say, $300(?) for the center speaker. That's $1,200. OK, add RF remote system $80, very long HDMI cord $40, let's see...

Have your cake, eat it. Get a second cake, eat that too. Burp. Go to restroom.

Definitely going with the center upgrade would be a smart move. I just don't understand why people want a TV when they have a PJ, but then again everything I watch on TV is sports. I watch my shows via Itunes on my PJ.

The flat panel just seem like a waste of 600 bucks. That's the cost of 2 lamps.

Da-Lite screens are nice so I like that suggestion. Plus he's got the experience.

 

[jostenmeat]

The flat panel . . .That's the cost of 2 lamps.

Precisely my point. Why exactly do you think Tom wants to keep the RPTV?

60,000 hours = 60 bulbs, roughly. I do not assume that their viewing habits are the same as yours, or mine for that matter.

So, you can also think of it as 58 free bulbs. Overcompressed HD lite doesn't always benefit from the immersive experience. Neither does background TV news, etc.

Besides cost allocation, the idea of the flat panel allows 1) three identical speakers on the same plane, AND 2) without the need for AT. These two things are not possible if we keep the RPTV in play, at least without serious compromise.

 

[tomd51]

While I see where lsiberian is going and I agree to some extent, there are several reasons for keeping a properly working RPTV.

For standard viewing by myself along with the missus and other guests (family, kids, etc.), such as TV shows, short-term viewing (less than an hour), listening to music from my AppleTV both casually and when working out, the RPTV is a far better option than firing up the projector for short periods and for viewing that is less critical. Being a 61" screen, it's not like slumming, it's just a bit smaller than I would prefer for movie and concert viewing. These reasons, coupled with the decrease in value of a CRT rear projection screen TV making it difficult to sell for any decent return. While it's only 1080i capable, it still displays great PQ, black levels and superb detail, particularly using Blu-ray, but trying to sell outdated technology, whether it's much better performance for price than current technology, is difficult to say the least.

As for josten's suggestion, I'd considered an additional main for a center at one point and it may still be a possibility, but I'm not completely sure. My current setup has theater curtains above, below and to the sides of the RPTV. While the side curtains slide open w/out a problem, the height of the top and bottom curtains have been tailored for the size of the RPTV (see attached crappy screen shot). When I used just the projector and not the TV when it was being repaired, I was able to shorten the top curtain. Unfortunately, the bottom curtain is only so long (approx. 28") and I believe a main as a center, whether it was identical to my current mains or a step down would be at least 34" in height.

As for a manual screen, I assume it would have to be a pull-up, as the center is mounted on top of the TV. A pull-down would cover the center in its current location and unfortunately, due to the TVs base, I can't place the center below the screen of the TV.

If I were starting from scratch, I still think I would still want a TV of some sort in the theater room, there's several reasons for it, likely the most important would be insuring the longevity of the life of the PJ. In this case though, it's being a bit of headache... -TD

ps josten
Where's the cake? Me likey cake...

 

[ErinH]

You guys are talking about 3 mains.... that's why I'm wanting a transparent screen. I will be using 3 identical towers for L/R/C. I've already gotten my setup picked out; everything except the screen. The towers are all DIY swans (or Seas pointsource). I do not want a horizontal center. It's the vertical center that is going to cause issues, so I need the transparent screen.

So, I'm open to any and all suggestions.

FWIW, I'm pretty set on the Epson 1080 projector.

 

[tomd51]

Will your center be too tall once you drop the screen? Have you determined this based on a certain screen size?

You might want to give some additional details (and possibly a separate thread so this one doesn't get too side-tracked, feel free to link it, though... ) as to your environment like ceiling height, speaker height, size of preferred screen, etc... -TD

 

[ErinH]

Yea, I'll have to start a new thread. I'm in the middle of building the house so I can do anything I want. But, budget is king here, and like the OP said, the transparent screens are mighty high priced.

I'll try to start a new one tomorrow so I can give as many specifics as I can.

Sorry OP for taking this off track (somewhat).

 

[tomd51]

NP Erin, I'm the original poster... -TD

 

[jostenmeat]

As for josten's suggestion, I'd considered an additional main for a center at one point and it may still be a possibility, but I'm not completely sure. My current setup has theater curtains above, below and to the sides of the RPTV. While the side curtains slide open w/out a problem, the height of the top and bottom curtains have been tailored for the size of the RPTV (see attached crappy screen shot). When I used just the projector and not the TV when it was being repaired, I was able to shorten the top curtain. Unfortunately, the bottom curtain is only so long (approx. 28") and I believe a main as a center, whether it was identical to my current mains or a step down would be at least 34" in height.

Well, without a 100% understanding of how this all works, what about losing the bottom curtain? Use some GOM (guillford of maine) or other AT fabric, to cover the center speaker, and whatever else is there? Make it wide enough to be symmetrically pleasant in relation to width of projection screen?

This is assuming you don't mind splurging on a new flat panel. Heck, just wait till your RPTV dies perhaps, maybe a few years from now. Just an idea?

 

[jostenmeat]

Yea, I'll have to start a new thread. I'm in the middle of building the house so I can do anything I want. But, budget is king here, and like the OP said, the transparent screens are mighty high priced.

I'll try to start a new one tomorrow so I can give as many specifics as I can.

Sorry OP for taking this off track (somewhat).

In all honesty Erin, and you can call me immature/stupid/lame if you want, but I've helped you on numerous occasions... You pretty much never click the thanks button. In fact, sometimes you don't even say thank you, so honestly, I usually don't chime in your threads anymore, after having so on plenty of occassions. But, anyways, here goes:

-Three towers do not necessitate AT all by itself. There is an AH member here who has three towers, with PJ, and it's not an AT system.

-If AT, you have to be quite careful that any bar at the bottom of the screen frame does not fall in the way of any driver!

-Figure out most everything else first (but DO NOT INSTALL CABINETRY IN THE FRONT WALL YET, if that was a possibility). Figure out # of seats and rows, comfort, etc. Figure out the "play" you have in terms of moving front to back the seating, while keeping best acoustics in play. Stay away from rear wall if possible, and 38% of room length as starters perhaps, doesn't matter which end.

-fire up the pic AT A BLANK wall for a few days, to truly see the immersion you really desire. Guessing this is so common, but IMO, kinda silly/stupid/lazy/impatient.

-back to necessity of AT, or lack thereof, if you crave anamorphic, height constraints will be further relieved. Budget being king, nm. UNLESS OF COURSE YOU GET A PANASONIC 3000.

-since this is from scratch, make the room taller than typical. Wish mine was.

-ok, in a nuthsell, see if you REALLY DO NEED AT. YOU MIGHT NOT.

 

[tomd51]

Yeah, that's the problem, the bottom curtain just covers the lower portion of the enclosure for the rear projection TV, so that curtain's right up against the front of the TV's housing.

Hmm.... that actually gives me an idea. I wonder if I were able to shell out a hole big enough to mount the center without affecting the structural integrity of the housing, this would let me get away w/a simple drop down that's not AT.

Hmm... might have to do some homework, thanks for bouncing some ideas off head, sooner or later, dawn breaks on marble head... -TD

 

[jostenmeat]

Yeah, that's the problem, the bottom curtain just covers the lower portion of the enclosure for the rear projection TV, so that curtain's right up against the front of the TV's housing.

Hmm.... that actually gives me an idea. I wonder if I were able to shell out a hole big enough to mount the center without affecting the structural integrity of the housing, this would let me get away w/a simple drop down that's not AT.

Hmm... might have to do some homework, thanks for bouncing some ideas off head, sooner or later, dawn breaks on marble head... -TD

I see... if you can raise the entire housing itself 6 inches, then you have that magical 34"? Sorry to beat the dead horse, I'm being ambitious for you.

edit: I remember I have successfully convinced at least one person here to match the towers, right here. He never shared a pic of it.

 

[tomd51]

I see... if you can raise the entire housing itself 6 inches, then you have that magical 34"? Sorry to beat the dead horse, I'm being ambitious for you.

Damn, if it weren't on a slab basement...

As silly as it might sound, b/c I really wouldn't be able to sell the TV for any real value (Craigslist is like dropping it into the vulture pit), doing a mod like I mentioned may not be as silly as it sounds. Most of the enclosure is hollow and so long as you don't mess w/the guns, reflection mirror or the screen, there's lots of room to work with in there.

If I could do it all over again, I probably would have gone three mains across the front and work from there with the TV on a riser of sorts. The nice thing is the Boston Acoustics VR12 I have for a center is pretty sizable and keeps up pretty darn well with my VR3s for music and movies, which is an impressive feat, IMHO.

Might just be a pipe dream, but if I do something like this, I'll definitely post back. In the meantime, I'm going to keep looking for that elusive, inexpensive and solid performing AT screen. I think I'll stumble across some aliens first... -TD

 

[jostenmeat]

For some reason, I failed to look at your equipment/sig. Excuse me if my understanding fades atm, I am a bit under the weather, but maybe . . . you can do an amalgam of this thread's results?

Your idea of modding/cutting, Isiberian's idea of center underneath angled, my idea of AT fabric covering.

No need for AT anymore.

Sorry if there was something I missed. I'm logging off for now, good luck, and good night.

 

[ErinH]

In all honesty Erin, and you can call me immature/stupid/lame if you want, but I've helped you on numerous occasions... You pretty much never click the thanks button. In fact, sometimes you don't even say thank you, so honestly, I usually don't chime in your threads anymore, after having so on plenty of occassions. But, anyways, here goes:

I post on SEVERAL forums. This is the only one that has a thanks button, and on those forums respect is common knowledge so we rarely say thanks. I know I never expect it unless I've gone completely out of my way, and as you've implied in the bolded above, I have thanked you from time to time, so I'm not blatantly ignoring you.

I appreciate your help. I appreciate anyone’s help. I don’t use the thanks button because I truly never even realize it’s there. I’ll try to remember we have one here.