Accidental Case of Upgradeitis

[canelli]

After getting an accidental case of upradeitish, I am looking for options and feedback for making changes to my receiver and / or add an amplifier. I have a budget of $2000 to $2500 max. I have a Denon 4311 on loan and have enjoyed it so far. I am not sure if it’s a difference in power, but it gives the impression of a much larger sound stage with more energy in the mids when compared to the Pioneer Elite. Maybe I need to fine tune the auto-setup. At the crossover of 80 the Denon sounds very thumpy /muddy and the automatic setting of 40 just makes the bass anemic.

I would say we lean more toward the music side than home theater. Something clean and properly imaged would be of more interest than having more headroom for the sake of a big explosion. Plus, we have the sub for that. At the same time, I do enjoy above reference levels during a good action movie.

The gear is in our den which opens to both the kitchen on one side and the rest of the house on the other. I think it’s worth mentioning since the den is small, but the total open area around it is quite large with only one real wall which the front speakers and tv are against.

Below is my current gear:
Receiver On Test Drive: Denon 4311
Receiver: Pioneer SC-05 Elite
Fronts: B&W CM9 (using plugs to tighten bass and for roll-off)
Backs: B&W 683s
Sub: JL F112
Future Upgrades: Get center channel, possible replace 683’s but they image pretty well with the CM9 as rears

The options I have been considering:
1) Keep Denon 4311 and try to sale / use Elite else where
a. Sounds good, but having problems getting the bass tuned in.
2) Return Denon & use the Pioneer as a preamp and to power the 683’s
a. Which amplifier would be a good match?
b. I have considered going to the Emotive XPA-3 and saving money.
3) Return Denon & get different receiver
a. Considering Anthem 700, but the power rating worries me. The Denon has more power and seems to have a much better sound stage compared to the Eilte.


How I got into doing the upgrade was no fault of my own. I spent last Saturday trying to figure out why there was a popping and hiss on all four speakers. I went pretty batty after trying everything possible. My wife contributed by telling me she thought it was a loose wire. I tried to explain that I checked every wire known to man. I tried turning different appliances on and off, unplugging everything, but the problem remained. So I decided it had to be the amp and got the Denon to test only to find out that the ground to our house was broken. I am guessing the wheel of the mover knocked it off. I reconnected the ground and that problem was solved. Once you get the upgrade bug, there is nothing else you can do.

 

[lsiberian]

Your sub is a great sealed sub, but that seal really does limit the deep epic bass a properly ported sub can deliver.
Your biggest upgrade would be to an SVS Ultra http://svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb13ultra.cfm. It's a large sub though so I understand if you can't get away with that.

I also advise people not to plug ports because the speaker was engineered for that port not for the sealed volume of the entire box. Your receiver should be able to handle the roll-off well.

I honestly don't see a change in receiver really helping your system right now.

 

[canelli]

I really appreciated your thoughts Isiberian.

I considered a SVS sub but I just don’t have a space for it. As far as the plug, the CM-9s are about 18” away from the wall. I am currently trying the plugs just to see what effect they have on the mids. Wish I could move them further away from the wall.

I can see your point about the speakers not being designed for the sealed volume. I had made the assumption that the port was there to help the speaker to reach lower frequencies and the Xover at 80hz took away / reduced that need.

If you were in Houston, I would invite you over to compare the Denon to the Pioneer with my setup. There is enough of a noticeable difference that my wife wants me to keep the Denon. I am not sure if it’s a placebo, warmer sound, or just more power. Knowing this would really help in deciding what would be the best upgrade.

I am leaning toward keeping the Pioneer and getting a separate amplifier. I have read about the advantages of separates, but I want to be realistic with my setup. Would there be a true benefit?

 

[canelli]

I had some time to make some adjustments and get use to the Audyssey room correction system. By the end of the night, the real difference between the two amps was the Dynamic EQ feature. Wife loves it, and I find it ok but muddy in certain situations. The older version of MCACC is not able to match the power of the newer Audyssey. I don’t see Dynamic EQ and a little better room correction worth spending all the extra cash. I feel it would be better to wait until I need an upgrade for newer features.


Any suggestions on what I should look at for my next upgrade?

 

[lsiberian]

I had some time to make some adjustments and get use to the Audyssey room correction system. By the end of the night, the real difference between the two amps was the Dynamic EQ feature. Wife loves it, and I find it ok but muddy in certain situations. The older version of MCACC is not able to match the power of the newer Audyssey. I don’t see Dynamic EQ and a little better room correction worth spending all the extra cash. I feel it would be better to wait until I need an upgrade for newer features.


Any suggestions on what I should look at for my next upgrade?

Audyssey is more powerful than MCACC so that may be the reason for the difference. I've noticed EQ can make tremendous differences for speakers crossover issues. But level matching is the most likely culprit for your perceived differences. There is nothing wrong with enjoying a new receiver. If it makes the wife happier than I'd say stick with it.

For a size limited setup you'd need a Passive Radiator design or infinite baffle. I don't know of any great commercially available passive radiator subs out there and you already have one of the best sealed subs in the world.

It would have to be custom. You could probably get a box built by a cabinet builder for a good price.