They're factory refurbished units for the most part at A4L but they do sell new closeouts also so watch the description and sales terms as well as warranty carefully. How well the refurbs are gone thru is more about who the brand contracted to do such IMO (or why the units were put thru the refurb mill in the first place). D+M Group did a lousy job with the two refurb Denon 4520s I tried before going with a new unit, but A4L was great to deal with, they even went beyond their stated terms. From various forum posts seems most do well with the refurbs, tho; I'd still consider one too.