Accessories4Less - I finally had a failure. You judge!

KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I have been singing the praises of A4L for years. The units I have gotten from them always have looked like new (or very very close) and operated flawlessly. However, I can no longer say this!
My refurbished Marantz NR-1605 started cycling on and off about a month ago. I bought it 11/18/15 and was busy (or slack) and waited until last week to drive into the belly of the beast that is Atlanta traffic to a repair center (2.5 weeks left of one year Marantz warranty on refurb). I took it to Norman's Electronic repair which is the area Marantz authorized repair center. 2 days later they called and said the part I needed was an HDMI board and they were on back order, so Marantz would replace my unit with another refurbished NR-1605 which I received today!
So only 5 days (3 business days) since I dropped it off and I have a working replacement!
I can't complain about that kind of support.
A4L was kind enough to email a copy of my invoice to the repair center so I didn't have to worry about digging out old paperwork!

Personally, A4L has been wonderful to deal with. Here are some facts and my thoughts:
8 receivers bought over past 7 years, average years ownership of receivers is 3.13 years with this one failure. I do not own all of these, but the ones not in my house, I know to still be functioning well except I do not know if there have been any problems with the Denon AVR-X4000 that I sold to @speakerman39 after he sold it to someone else.
I have also bought 3 clock radio/ipod docks, and 2 CD/DVD players with no failures. Or a grand total of 13 units with one failure.
I believe I saved a minimum of 25% over street price as compared to buying new (this includes Amazon open box pricing) so if I had a failure for every 4 units, I would break even on the basis of cost alone. However, having a failure is a hassle
There is also the question of what the chance of this HDMI board failing had I bought a new AVR instead.
Electronics have been established to follow a bathtub curve for failure rates, so I do not feel a three year warranty is tremendously more valuable than a one year warranty, IOW if it doesn't fail in the first days of operation, the likelihood of failure is low for the next few years:


Part of my purpose for this thread is that in the future, I will link it when suggesting people buy from A4L so they will have the full information on my (no longer perfect) experience.

Lastly, I want to point out that there is an important distinction between manufacturer refurbished and warranted by the manufacturer vs. items refurbed and warrantied by third parties. The well known companies A4L deals with have their name behind these products and you would presume have well thought out repair procedures to protect their reputation - for the manufacturer, refurb sales are more of a way to cut losses rather than being their real profit center.
The third party operations often consist of a company buying returned stock for a deep discount and trying to minimize repair cost and maximize profit off of these units (Ferengi style)! If they get a bad reputation, all they have to do is change the name of their company.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
It seems like a low percentage of failure and good service by A4L.

But I would still rather buy a brand new Denon @ 40-60% off from Amazon when the new models are released each year. :)

Bottom line, nothing bad to say about A4L.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
It seems like a low percentage of failure and good service by A4L.

But I would still rather buy a brand new Denon @ 40-60% off from Amazon when the new models are released each year. :)
Not sure I'd agree. For example, the out-dated Marantz SR6009 is available at A4L for $500 (original price listed as $1300). Looking at Amazon, the best price is $900 for new! I think the $500 price is a helluva deal!

Another great A4L deal is the X4000 for $550. I don't think you'll find another way to get Audyssey XT32 with SubEQ for that kind of price!

I will agree that sometimes the price of an open box unit on Amazon is close enough or equal to buying refurbed from A4L and in that case (my Denon 4520) I bought from Amazon. Definitely should shop around to be sure!
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Not sure I'd agree. For example, the out-dated Marantz SR6009 is available at A4L for $500 (original price listed as $1300). Looking at Amazon, the best price is $900 for new! I think the $500 price is a helluva deal!

Another great A4L deal is the X4000 for $550. I don't think you'll find another way to get Audyssey XT32 with SubEQ for that kind of price!

I will agree that sometimes the price of an open box unit on Amazon is close enough or equal to buying refurbed from A4L and in that case (my Denon 4520) I bought from Amazon. Definitely should shop around to be sure!
It Is about timing.

I've seen cases where a brand new Denon was the same price on Amazon as the same model refurbished from A4L. I've posted the prices on the forum in the past.

If you need something right now and it's $500 cheaper as a refurbished from A4L, then it's more tempting to buy from A4L.

But if you are lucky enough to be able to wait, I've seen brand new Denon AVR for like 66% off MSRP (I think it was the Denon 4520).

So it's usually about timing.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Your title seems like you had a failure with A4L themselves, which doesn't seem to be the case, seems you just had a bad refurb from D+M Group. I bought two refurbed 4520s from A4L before giving up and getting a new unit, but A4L kept their end of the bargain, and a bit beyond for the second failed unit from D+M. I think you should change the title of your thread.
 
K

Kyle0910

Audioholic Intern
I would rather go in my local best buy and haggle them down because I buy so much stuff haha. I bought an open box x4200 for $300 because they were trying to get rid of it.

But I will definitely be checking out A4L to see what deals I can find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Your title seems like you had a failure with A4L themselves, which doesn't seem to be the case, seems you just had a bad refurb from D+M Group. I bought two refurbed 4520s from A4L before giving up and getting a new unit, but A4L kept their end of the bargain, and a bit beyond for the second failed unit from D+M. I think you should change the title of your thread.
You are right, I should have worded it differently to avoid ambiguity. Unfortunately, I do not believe I can change it once it has been submitted.
I'm not sure I really got a bad refurb. To me a bad refurb would have problems either upon receipt or within a couple of weeks. This unit has performed flawlessly for 10 months before the HDMI board lost it, so I would look at that more as a HDMI board failure. Perhaps there is something about it being refurbed that would make the HDMI board more likely to fail, I'm no electronics expert, but I would either look to the design of the board or a component on the board that got past QC checks.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Still 10 months isn't something A4L had control over, just a D+M problem, could be poor standards for the refurb program (my personal opinion) or just substandard components/design/assembly further up the tree (like Onkyo famously had with their HDMI boards for a while....and fwiw my Pioneer died of an HDMI board issue but after two years). Be nice if they all had a more rigorous method of keeping poor units off the shelves and had a minimum 5 year warranty....
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I bought two refurbed 4520s from A4L before giving up and getting a new unit, but A4L kept their end of the bargain, and a bit beyond for the second failed unit from D+M.
Good point. A4L may be a top-notch company and great service.

But you are taking a bigger risk when buying any complex electronics refurbished vs brand new.

I assume you missed the big Amazon sale on the Denon 4520, which I think was around $900 brand new?

Another member got his local Best Buy store to price match Amazon on the Denon 4520. That's the way to go right there. Best of both worlds - low price and local buy.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Still 10 months isn't something A4L had control over, just a D+M problem, could be poor standards for the refurb program (my personal opinion) or just substandard components/design/assembly further up the tree (like Onkyo famously had with their HDMI boards for a while....and fwiw my Pioneer died of an HDMI board issue but after two years). Be nice if they all had a more rigorous method of keeping poor units off the shelves and had a minimum 5 year warranty....
I certainly agree that A4L is a good company! They have always been professional and courteous in my dealings with them.
As I see it, before placing a purchase from A4L you have to consider both whether A4L is a good company to deal with (and I have never heard anyone complain about them) and whether you are willing to take the risk of buying a refurb.

For the record what was the problem with your 4520s?

PS- I would change the title, but I don't see a way to edit it!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Good point. A4L may be a top-notch company and great service.

But you are taking a bigger risk when buying any complex electronics refurbished vs brand new.

I assume you missed the big Amazon sale on the Denon 4520, which I think was around $900 brand new?

Another member got his local Best Buy store to price match Amazon on the Denon 4520. That's the way to go right there. Best of both worlds - low price and local buy.
Yep, refurb is a risk to take into account; making sure you have an extended warranty isn't a bad idea....

I got my 4520 back when refurbs from A4L were $900, got the new one from them at $1000 and at the time Amazon deals weren't as good. Don't live near stores myself anyways so internet is the way I roll....
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I certainly agree that A4L is a good company! They have always been professional and courteous in my dealings with them.
As I see it, before placing a purchase from A4L you have to consider both whether A4L is a good company to deal with (and I have never heard anyone complain about them) and whether you are willing to take the risk of buying a refurb.

For the record what was the problem with your 4520s?

PS- I would change the title, but I don't see a way to edit it!
I had great service from A4L. There are those that believe A4L does their own refurb or resells returned refurbs but that has not been my experience.

The first 4520 wouldn't even go thru setup completely even after several resets, the second lasted for just over 30 days before freaking out with volume controls and recycling/shutoff issues that resets didn't resolve, even tho A4L offered yet another exchange for another refurb they still had a new unit for $100 more so I took it rather than just go thru the setup again!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Oh, you might ask a mod to change the title....
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
You are right, I should have worded it differently to avoid ambiguity. Unfortunately, I do not believe I can change it once it has been submitted.
I'm not sure I really got a bad refurb. To me a bad refurb would have problems either upon receipt or within a couple of weeks. This unit has performed flawlessly for 10 months before the HDMI board lost it, so I would look at that more as a HDMI board failure. Perhaps there is something about it being refurbed that would make the HDMI board more likely to fail, I'm no electronics expert, but I would either look to the design of the board or a component on the board that got past QC checks.
Almost certainly the failure was not due to the unit being a refurb. The most significant thing about your post is that they are out of HDMI boards. This strongly suggests these units have bad HDMI boards. I also suspect they are now out of the original production run. Then the question becomes will they go to the enormous expense of another run. I suppose it depends on the numbers out there.

I have a feeling these units may have a premature visit to the recycling center. I suspect Marantz will find it cheaper to supply replacement units until they run out. After that I have a felling we will be looking at unhappy customers.

This HDMI board problem seems to show up across the industry on receivers and TVs far too often. I suspect there are some bad HDMI chip sets out there.

This is another reason not to be trigger happy about upgrades. If you have a long time functioning unit meeting your needs, or most of them, hang on to it!

Unfortunately I think for this model this will be a harbinger of bad news more likely than not.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Almost certainly the failure was not due to the unit being a refurb. The most significant thing about your post is that they are out of HDMI boards. This strongly suggests these units have bad HDMI boards. I also suspect they are now out of the original production run. Then the question becomes will they go to the enormous expense of another run. I suppose it depends on the numbers out there.
As I was dropping mine off at the service center, there was a guy picking his NR-1606 up. I asked what had happened to it, and he said the HDMI board went out. Marantz replaced the board in his unit, so must have just run out! I suspect the 1605 and 1606 use the same board. Although a sample of one, it is an amazing coincidence that the only other customer I ran into had the same issue!
 
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