A Kitchen Setup for Zone 2 Suggestions

[ScKaSx]

Hi All,

I am having the kitchen remodeled and wanted to use the Zone 2 in my Denon receiver (AVR-2308Cl) so I could listen to music in the kitchen and near by office (the Denon receiver is in my living room). To make a more 'sleak' look I was hoping to use ceiling speakers. Since the electrican will be running wires through the walls tomorrow and they will be drywalling the ceiling soon I was hoping to get your expert opinions quickly.

Anyways, some of the questions I have are:
(1) What would be the recommended placement for the ceiling speakers in a kitchen which is rectangular with an island in the center and otherwise symmetrical. The office is off to the side.
................_______
................|office.|
................|........|
__________|_____|
| kitchen..............|
|........____.........|
|.......|____|........|
|........................|
|___x___________|

(2) Since it appears the zone 2 has only left and right speaker output, should I just stick with 2 speakers OR CAN I GET FANCY and have like 4 speakers on each corner with a BASS (obviously this will influence my question in (1)).

(3) Considering the setup you suggest what are some good models for speakers, (I would be looking at low-mid level pricing).

(4) ASIDE: I have a small tv in the kitchen (denoted with 'x' in the picture) which is connected to a DirectTv receiver (independent of Denon receiver). Is there a way to use the ceiling speakers for this TV's sound? Would I somehow have to connect the DirectTV receiver to the Denon in my living room OR could I extend the Denon Reciever somehow to the kitchen so I can control the TV and music from the kitchen?

Anyways, thanks for all your help in advance. This newbie appreciates all the help he can get.

Cheers,
ScKaSx

 

[poutanen]

I've got a few questions/suggestions, hope they help.

1) Are you going to use a separate amp to power the kitchen speakers? If not, does that receiver have the ability to amplify a set of Zone 2 speakers hooked into the "Surr Back/Amp Assign" channels?

2) If you have the ability to run split signals to different zones, then I would run the DirectTv signal into your Denon, and then run a monitor out cable to your TV in the kitchen. (although if you only want to watch the direct TV signal in the kitchen, I suppose you could wire the video directly from the DTV to the TV)

3) You will only be able to run 2 channels, and a sub is out of the question, so I'd make the effort to get 2 decent speakers, and I wouldn't go in-ceiling. A good set of decent bookshelf sized speakers should be lots for a kitchen system.

The benefit to running everything through the Denon, is you can route any signal you want to your kitchen and run the same or a different signal in you main listening area. Hell, if you're watching a movie and want to get up to get popcorn, power up zone 2 and you don't have to miss anything! lol

 

[adk highlander]

Hi ScKaSx welcome to the forum.

I think there are a variety of ways to do what you want and my suggestion on how to do this will give you full control but may not be the cheapest but not outrageously expensive.

Nice receiver by the way. I would set up an IR or RF system that would control the functions of the receiver and Sat box and a speaker selector to choose which pair (or both) speakers you want to use. I use IR so I will speak on that because it is what I know the most about.

If you get an IR receiver and a main system unit like the Niles MSU-140 and MS110 you can send the IR info to control all the products from the kitchen. The IR sensor would go in the wall and feed to the main system unit. You then plug the main system unit into the IR in on the back of you receiver and use flashers to control your other sources. This would mean you could move the sat box into the area with the receiver and just send a video only signal to the tv. Unfortunately you cannot do zone 2 video so it cannot pass through the receiver.

Are you going to use the surround back channels to power the zone 2 or are you going to use an external amp?

Either way you could run one set up speaker wires to a selector so you could turn on either pair of speakers (kitchen or office). This could be located in the kitchen or where your gear is located.

For speakers I use Polk and Sonance. Speakercraft is another line to look at but will be on the higher price side. I have found the polks to be a good mid price choice. Another option is to get a "stereo" speaker where both the left and right go into the same speaker which will make placement easier.

As I said there are other ways using RF which would get rid of the IR reciever and use a main system unit that will process the RF to IR and feed it to the flashers.

 

[BMXTRIX]

(1) What would be the recommended placement for the ceiling speakers in a kitchen which is rectangular with an island in the center and otherwise symmetrical. The office is off to the side.
................_______
................|office.|
................|........|
__________|_____|
| kitchen..............|
|........____.........|
|...S...|____|....S...|
|........................|
|___x___________|

There is no real 'ideal' placement of a stereo source when you don't have any obvious 'stereo' seating position. I would likely put one on either side of the kitchen. (denoted by 'S' above) as a baseline recommendation. You really aren't getting top notch sound, but solid fill sound out of this type of speaker setup, and with decent speakers, they will work quite nicely.

The option would be to place two bookshelf speakers at one end of the kitchen, perhaps up on top of the cabinets, but this is if you plan to be a bit more critical of the stereo source - and likely would not deliver much audio to the office.

(2) Since it appears the zone 2 has only left and right speaker output, should I just stick with 2 speakers OR CAN I GET FANCY and have like 4 speakers on each corner with a BASS (obviously this will influence my question in (1)).

You can run 4 speakers off the Denon if you want, but your investment in speakers needs to be appropriate and you shouldn't short change the speakers just to add more of them. I would instead stick with two decent speakers over four cheap speakers.

I am assuming you are running 5.1 in your living room and still have 2 open channels of amplification in the Denon.

(3) Considering the setup you suggest what are some good models for speakers, (I would be looking at low-mid level pricing).

I'm not sure what you consider low-mid level pricing, but there are tons of in-ceiling models out there. To fill a room without a sub, and with hard surfaces, I often recommend the Sonance 831 speakers, which give a 3-way design including 8", 4", and tweeters, all of which can be aimed. It gives you a better low end without a sub, while keeping it all in the ceiling.

(4) ASIDE: I have a small tv in the kitchen (denoted with 'x' in the picture) which is connected to a DirectTv receiver (independent of Denon receiver). Is there a way to use the ceiling speakers for this TV's sound? Would I somehow have to connect the DirectTV receiver to the Denon in my living room OR could I extend the Denon Reciever somehow to the kitchen so I can control the TV and music from the kitchen?

You would need to connect the audio from the DirecTV to the Denon. I would relocate the receiver, make sure that you have decent wiring to your TV in the kitchen, then run analog audio so you can hear it in the kitchen.

I know in my home we only use two cable boxes to feed 4+ destinations for video, and many more for audio. What I haven't checked is if we can output 480i video over coax to a kitchen display so we can add a small TV in the kitchen to augment the display in the family room. But, it's a nifty way to do things.

 

[jcPanny]

Kitchen audio upgrade

For audio in the kitchen here are my sugestions.

1. Use 2 inceling speakers to disperse background music through the room. Unless your kitchen is huge, you don't need more speakers.
2. There is no specific listening position and acoustics in the kitchen are far from ideal, so some inexpensive speakers will be adequate. I used some pheonix gold in-ceiling speakers in the kitchen and in 4 other rooms for background music.
3. Wire for and install a VC. 14/4 speaker wire from the receiver to the VC and 2 x 14/2 from the VC to the speakers. The VC allows you to easily adjust the volume or turn off the speakers while you are in the kitchen.
4. If you spend a lot of time in the office area you could add a 3rd speaker (1 woofer and 2 tweeters). I used this type in one of the bathrooms and it worked out well. If you use an impedance matching VC then you will be able to run all 3-4 speakers off of the receiver.

 

[ScKaSx]

Thanks for the comments guys, I had afew more questions:

(4) You asked about how I will be powering the speakers, I assumed that the zone 2 outputs would do that for me (i.e. power coming from receiver). If this is not so how would i power the speakers? And yes, I am only using 5.1 in the living room, thanks for asking that BMXTRIX.

(5) I like the idea of a IR receiver but I already have a Sat box hooked up to my Denon Receiver (in the living room). I don't think there is another slot in the Denon for another Sat box, or is there? Is this how you would set up your TV in the kitchen?

Thanks again,
ScKaSx

 

[poutanen]

Thanks for the comments guys, I had afew more questions:

(4) You asked about how I will be powering the speakers, I assumed that the zone 2 outputs would do that for me (i.e. power coming from receiver). If this is not so how would i power the speakers? And yes, I am only using 5.1 in the living room, thanks for asking that BMXTRIX.

(5) I like the idea of a IR receiver but I already have a Sat box hooked up to my Denon Receiver (in the living room). I don't think there is another slot in the Denon for another Sat box, or is there? Is this how you would set up your TV in the kitchen?

Thanks again,
ScKaSx

4) If you're talking about the Zone 2 "RCA" pre-outs, they need to run into an amp to do anything, but without looking at the manual for your receiver it would be safe to assume you could use the extra 2 channels on the denon to power the speakers. My Yamaha does this, you can program the presence speaker outs into zone 2 outs.

5) He's talking about an IR remote control receiver being setup in your kitchen, which would relay the controls to your receiver (allowing you so adjust the volume, change channels, etc. as if the receiver were right there with you in the kitchen)

I'm going to be wiring up at least a zone 2, maybe a zone 3 in my new house (probably garage and/or games room, depending), and I'll be setting up a remote system like this. PS3 doesn't need it, as the bluetooth will already work all over the house, but the receiver, cable box, etc. will need the IR remote system.

 

[jcPanny]

IR distribution

A more expensive VC will include an IR sensor. You would need a cat 5 cable run from the VC back to the receiver and some IR distribution box to get the signal to the receiver.

Another inexpensive option is an RF remote. URC has models for <$100 that will work any where in a 100 ft. range. The RF signal goes to a receiver with sends the IR signal to your gear.

 

[BMXTRIX]

(4) You asked about how I will be powering the speakers, I assumed that the zone 2 outputs would do that for me (i.e. power coming from receiver). If this is not so how would i power the speakers? And yes, I am only using 5.1 in the living room, thanks for asking that BMXTRIX.

You will want to use the speaker level output terminals on the back of the receiver, which look just like the ones you use to hook up the 5 speakers in the family room. The Surround Back channels, which aren't in use right now, can be assigned in the menu system of the receiver to power zone 2. So, when you turn the receiver on to zone 2, it will not just turn on zone 2, but will POWER zone 2. The A/V receiver only has a total of 7 channels of amplification, so zone 3 would require an external amplifier, or if you were running 7 speaker in the room (7.1), then you would also need an external amplifier.

(5) I like the idea of a IR receiver but I already have a Sat box hooked up to my Denon Receiver (in the living room). I don't think there is another slot in the Denon for another Sat box, or is there? Is this how you would set up your TV in the kitchen?

Let's take a look at the back of the receiver...
http://usa.denon.com/AVR2308CI_Large_Back_rdax_1200x465.jpg

You have FOUR video inputs on the back for composite video labelled DVD/HDP, TV/CBL, VCR, and DVR... err... there is no video output for zone 2, so the video out of the Sat box would need to run directly to the TV.

This means that the AUDIO from the sat box would need to go into one of those four inputs... OR... it can run into the other open audio options such as AUX or CD which may not already be in use.

Just because something says "CD INPUT" does not mean that it cares (or knows) what you are connecting to it. The only exception being the 'PHONO' input which typically has a phone amplifier after that input. So, run the Sat box into the CD input for audio, then turn Zone 2 on to 'CD' and you will hear the Sat box in the kitchen. Run the video out of the Sat box to the kitchen TV, and you have your video.

I'm not sure what cabling you have in place between the sat box and your kitchen TV now though, so it may not really be that 'easy'. But, if you are using a standard definition Sat box, and you have coax cable between the two locations, you should be good to go.