A 2.1 HT system built largely around vintage gear

TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I have just made an update to my basement system. I have installed the Quad FM 4 ans Quad 34 premp last week. In addition since the album was made the has the Quad 909 power amp in place of a Quad 405-2. A Quad 405-2 still powers the two isobaric coupled cavity subs.

The system consists of an APC UPS behind the TV, a Sony Bravia TV, Direct TV DVR, Sony DVD player, an automatic HDMI switch that switches automatically between the DVY and DVD player, Quad FM 4 , Quad 34 preamp, Thorens TD 125 II turntable, SME series 3 arm and Shure V14 xmr cartridge, Quad 909 and 405-II pwer amps, my Raymond E Cooke memorial speakers and my isobarik coupled cavity subs.

This is a link to the album.

Here are the highlights.

While doing the instal I took some pictures of one of the speakers out of the entertainment center.





The speakers use the now half century old KEF B 139 bass units. This is one of my favorite drivers of all time. There really is no good substitute even now. They provide deep bass with low coloration. Although rated at 27 watts, this is a way underrated spec. I have pushed these drivers hard in a number of installations and never had one fail.

I would love to update this unit with modern voice coil manufacturing techniques and magnet materials.

The unit is the ideal shape, as you can keep a narrow cabinet. A couple of updated units could easily allow for the design of a full range active speaker and reproduce the LFE signal.

The midrange is the famous Dynaudio D76 mid range dome.

The tweeter is a Hi-Vi Research mylar ribbon type unit.

Crossover point are 400 Hz and 4 kHz. The crossover is complex and totally impedance compensated to provide an essentially flat 6 ohm load.

The impedance compensation leans heavily on Raymond Cooke's work that was used so successfully in the BBC LSA 1 monitors.

The previous Quad FM3 and Quad 33 preamp.



The newly mounted Quad FM4 and Quad 34 preamp. The Quad 909 power amp is also visible.





The two isobarik coupled cavity subs. Te furniture between the two contains the active crossover and the Quad 405-2 power amp. (100 watts per channel). The two subs are driven mono. Crossover is third order at 70 Hz and fifth order at 90 Hz. The main speakers are operated full range and roll off first order around 53 Hz and fall away fourth order at 35 Hz. They basically have good and useful output to the mid thirties though. So not much output is required from the subs in fill in duty.

I have really come to enjoy this system. It has been a lot of work to really make this system an excellent one. 3db would droll over the way it reproduces vinyl LPs. The ported enclosure is over damped by intention, the subs fill in and have a low Q of 0.5 by design. The bass is very tight with no overhang. F3 for the system is 27 Hz. So it reaches to 30 Hz effectively.

Voices are very crisp and the stereo image very stable well outside the speakers.

The day I did the installation of the equipment it was 25 below and on those days I draw up the log Wilkening fireplace.



This system performs very well in this space which is large and highly ambient. Also the speaker locations by reason of interior design are problematic. However the the system has been tweaked and voiced and sounds really nice in that space. The tonal balance is very close indeed to the big studio system upstairs with the addition of ambiance, which on much program material is an advantage. The system fills the space with ease.

I have put together an album on how to panel mount Quad head units from the Peter Walker era at Quad. He developed this simple and elegant system right from the start in the late forties.

It is an example of what a great designer he was. All his circuits and engineering have this elegant simplicity about them. This alum will give members a good insight as to how Peter thought problems through and reduced them to the simplest essentials.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
Very nice secondary setup indeed. Congrats on the upgrade! I was looking at your album and there was this picture,


Isn't the subwoofer and lamp and corner loading killing the left side?
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
After seeing the pic's all I can think is that I should go read a book! :)
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Very nice secondary setup indeed. Congrats on the upgrade! I was looking at your album and there was this picture,


Isn't the subwoofer and lamp and corner loading killing the left side?
It's the right side. The answer is no. The KEF B139 is very slightly obscured by the sub, however since it is operating below 400 Hz it is of no consequence.

The mid and HF unit have excellent dispersion and the balance at the midpoint is perfect. You do not have to bias the right side with a boost of power. In fact the sound is very uniform throughout the space with good imaging even out by the fireplace. In fact it makes you wonder if central speakers are really needed, as there is perfect center localization of voices over a wide area. With the crossover points outside the speech discrimination band voices are very natural with very superior speech intelligibility.

This picture may be gives a more accurate perspective. The mid and tweeter are not covered at all.

 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
So when're ya gonna replace the Hi-Vi with a RAAL :D :eek:
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
It's the right side. The answer is no. The KEF B139 is very slightly obscured by the sub, however since it is operating below 400 Hz it is of no consequence.

The mid and HF unit have excellent dispersion and the balance at the midpoint is perfect. You do not have to bias the right side with a boost of power. In fact the sound is very uniform throughout the space with good imaging even out by the fireplace. In fact it makes you wonder if central speakers are really needed, as there is perfect center localization of voices over a wide area. With the crossover points outside the speech discrimination band voices are very natural with very superior speech intelligibility.

This picture may be gives a more accurate perspective. The mid and tweeter are not covered at all.
I think agarwalro was wondering about the corner loading of two subwoofers in the same corner. I was wondering the same thing. Doesn't that excite some strong room modes?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I think agarwalro was wondering about the corner loading of two subwoofers in the same corner. I was wondering the same thing. Doesn't that excite some strong room modes?
It does not seem to. It might with a lot of speakers. However I design speakers to have very low Q. Very few commercial speakers have Qs as low as mine. It gives a a very tight bass, which is just like live performance.

The upshot is that the bass is so tight it almost stops before it gets going. This really minimizes exciting room modes. I'm convinced that room modes are are severely exacerbated by most speakers and especially subs having a Q that is far too high.

The real test is to listen to a live pipe organ, especially a well designed and voice tracker organ, and you will hear a really tight bass, that sounds just like the speakers I design and build. Most speakers will not produce them with realism.

A couple of weeks ago I went to a wonderful program, that involved a very nice tracker organ in a small chapel, and that was not exciting room modes left right and center either.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
I think agarwalro was wondering about the corner loading of two subwoofers in the same corner. I was wondering the same thing. Doesn't that excite some strong room modes?
It does not seem to.
Let me demonstrate my budding status as a brainiologist by saying that the fact that there are two subs, even if they are only a couple of feet apart, would take the curse out of either one sub's naturally occurring peaks and nulls. (uhmmm ... that's just a guess, right?)

With my own pee-pee subs that I use for Home Theater (not the DIY'ers) I use an EQ to cut huge peaks at the lower frequencies making the response curve resemble that of lower Q subs which helps them sound less like crap.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Let me demonstrate my budding status as a brainiologist by saying that the fact that there are two subs, even if they are only a couple of feet apart, would take the curse out of either one sub's naturally occurring peaks and nulls. (uhmmm ... that's just a guess, right?)

With my own pee-pee subs that I use for Home Theater (not the DIY'ers) I use an EQ to cut huge peaks at the lower frequencies making the response curve resemble that of lower Q subs which helps them sound less like crap.
I'm sure you must be correct.....:rolleyes:

No, really. I mean it.....:rolleyes:

:D
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Let me demonstrate my budding status as a brainiologist by saying that the fact that there are two subs, even if they are only a couple of feet apart, would take the curse out of either one sub's naturally occurring peaks and nulls. (uhmmm ... that's just a guess, right?)

With my own pee-pee subs that I use for Home Theater (not the DIY'ers) I use an EQ to cut huge peaks at the lower frequencies making the response curve resemble that of lower Q subs which helps them sound less like crap.
I believe TLS was saying the subs are tuned lower than standard subs. Subs close together would not normally offer optimal cancellation of peaks and nulls. I'm sure TLS selected the best locations based on observation over experience. It is a challenge to get good sounds with that type of setup and a demonstration of how to shelf mount speakers.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
It's the right side. The answer is no. The KEF B139 is very slightly obscured by the sub, however since it is operating below 400 Hz it is of no consequence.

The mid and HF unit have excellent dispersion and the balance at the midpoint is perfect. You do not have to bias the right side with a boost of power. In fact the sound is very uniform throughout the space with good imaging even out by the fireplace. In fact it makes you wonder if central speakers are really needed, as there is perfect center localization of voices over a wide area. With the crossover points outside the speech discrimination band voices are very natural with very superior speech intelligibility.
TLS Guy I have deep respect for your audio erudition and please don't feel that I'm being argumentative. Wouldn't the left side need higher power to compensate for the right boundary (wall behind the lamp and subs)? I would think that the mid and tweeter having very good horizontal dispersion would have a lot more energy reflect from the wall and exacerbate the corner loading?

Also, wrt the sub, I'm more concerned that the flat top will create a combing effect on the right.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
TLS Guy I have deep respect for your audio erudition and please don't feel that I'm being argumentative. Wouldn't the left side need higher power to compensate for the right boundary (wall behind the lamp and subs)? I would think that the mid and tweeter having very good horizontal dispersion would have a lot more energy reflect from the wall and exacerbate the corner loading?

Also, wrt the sub, I'm more concerned that the flat top will create a combing effect on the right.
There almost certainly is some bounce off the top of the sub, but you can't detect it. Part of the reason is that this space is very ambient with a very short but definite echo. It sounds really nice down there and I have no intention of trying to tame the echo.

The image is central and the balance control is centered. Dumb luck I guess. There is no where else to out the subs in the room, so what ever happened you would have to live with it.
 
M

mjcmt

Audioholic
Way cool!

Now this is a truly wonderful basement system. The vintage era gear as you set it up really compliments your room. Thanks for posting it for all to see.

I used to own the TD125 turntable too and miss it dearly. I bought it new w/ Shure SME3009 arm and Stanton 681ee cart in the early '70s. Am I that old...still lots of life left...like your TT.
 
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Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I think I've got that exact same Sony TV, but mine is sitting idle because it doesn't support HDMI. You've created quite a system. Nicely done.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I think I've got that exact same Sony TV, but mine is sitting idle because it doesn't support HDMI. You've created quite a system. Nicely done.
My Sony, has an HDMI input. Just one, but that's all I need.
 

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