8ohm vs 4ohm shootout!

Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
I would like to see two similar speakers rated at the same sesitivity, but different ohms, put to the test. Check in room spl at the same level from the same source to see which speaker is louder. I know there are tons of technical formulas to give an answer, but is there time to do a real world test. Or, has this been done already?
 
Last edited:
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
What's the point? If the speakers are identical only one has a 4 ohm impedance profile and the other an 8 ohm profile then they will play equally loud if driven at the same power level.

Realize however if the amp is putting out 1 watt to an 8 ohm speaker and you suddenly switch to the 4 ohm speaker, you will now be delivering 2 watts to the 4 ohm speaker and thus your SPL will increase 3dB. This of course assumes your amp acts like an ideal voltage source (which most don't especially at high power levels).

What you have to realize however is a speaker is NOT like a resistor. The impedance rating is merely an average and sometimes fudged #. If a manufacturer makes a speaker whose impedance fluctuates from 4-16 ohms in the audio band but has a reasonably high efficiency (> 90dB), they may rate it 8 ohms instead of 4. You also have to look at electrical phase to see how tough of a reactive load it will represent to the amplifier.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
I am just trying to shed some light on an overlooked point. Most people are pointed away from a 4ohm speaker because everyone speaks of how hard they are to drive. The way I look at it, it's a form of cheating to get the most out of a well made amp. I don't have an extra set of similar speakers to do the test. But, because of how the impedance fluctuates, I would like to see the outcome. I know it would only matter based on the two speakers being used, but I would love to see it.

I just don't pick a speaker because it's 8ohm. I pick one because I like the way it sounds. If it's 4ohm, I choose the best match I can afford to drive it. Many people are missing out on a variety of great sounding speakers by limiting their choices. I just feel there are more positive points of a 4 ohm speaker that are missed, and I would like to see some of those things shown to support these companies who make such fine products.
 
sts9fan

sts9fan

Banned
Here is a post I copied on this exact subject written by the president of SP Technology loudspeakers.

Friends,

I just got a PM from a circle member that asked me the following question:
Quote:
I've read some recent articles that proclaim the advent of 4ohm speakers has been a poor trend in the speaker industry. What are your thoughts with respect to 4ohm loads, as they relate to the demands placed on the amplifier design.

My response turned into a dissertation before I was through (that's never happened before ). I thought, "Gee, I could post this on our circle and maybe piss somebody off!" Not that that's really my goal, but inevitably...

Anyway, heres my opinion on the matter - right from the mouth of god. (Note "god" is spelled with a little "g.")

As far as speaker impedance goes - I have my opinion. It sounds to me that whoever is making such claims is basing their opinion on the fact that they prefer low power, SET type amps. You can be sure it becomes an issue when using such equipment. The design philosophy behind the MRS products is totally based on accuracy of reproduction. The euphonic effects produced by low power (particularly tube) amps may "sound" good, but they are not a part of the original recordings in most cases. I suppose if they were, then you'd have a doubling of the effect when using such equipment with those recordings.

I've even used such "sweetening" myself at the show this year. We used the Modwright preamp in our setup and we could tell it was adding something to the high frequencies - something no other solid-state preamp ever did. The point is, although we suspected (I could be wrong ) the effect was a result of added harmonics at high frequencies, we liked it and it made for a better show presentation. If other folks do the same with their equipment, then we can hardly fault them for it.

But the upshot is that if you use your power amp to get those effects, there’s a secondary drawback. Low powered amps usually can’t supply the current needed to drive a 4-ohm speaker. Well now... there are many good, low impedance speakers out there that a lot of small amps will never be able to drive. If I were a betting man, I’d bet that many (not "all") makers of such amps would wish that all low impedance and/or lower sensitivity speakers would go away. That way their amps couldn’t be faulted for not being able to drive them. I’ll bet there’s more going on behind the scenes of these comments that you are referring to, than most audiophiles would never be aware of or even think about. It all has to do with the almighty $$$.

So…do I think there’s anything wrong with a 4-ohm speaker? Nope, not a thing – other than the fact it places higher current requirements on the amplifier - and that's not a failure in speaker design whatsoever. The whole thing is a front. As an example, I helped develop 40,000 watt amplifiers with DC - 20kHz bandwidths, that were designed to drive loads with a maximum of 1/2 ohm impedance and a lot of inductance (very hard to do) - back in my days at Crown. I left there after nine years back in 1996. Bleeding edge research (for back then) to be sure, but the production line ended up producing literally thousands of them for the Medical/MRI industry. The point is, with today’s technology, although it’s not a cakewalk…it ain’t exactly rocket science either. There is absolutely no reason any decent amplifier manufacturer can’t produce exceptional products of relatively high power and moderate to high current sourcing capability (i.e., easily able to drive 4-ohms). The only reason they don’t is because they like the euphonic sound of their smaller amplifier (which is fine), or they just aren’t smart enough to build bigger/better ones (their problem).

Whatever their reasons, the one thing they definitely need to do for sure... is to shut the hell up and quit trying to pass the buck on the speaker manufacturers! – implying that the industry has “lost its way” and is on the wrong path, yada yada. They now appear to have resorted to having their little “dis-information” hawkers (you don't want to know what happens to false prophets!) out there trying to spread their gospel of “big-amp = bad-amp” pseudo-techno-theology = bull s**t. However, they can’t do that directly or they would inflame the big amp manufacturers. That in turn would start a serious debate that would end up having them look like they're trying to make excuses for their amplifiers shortcomings. That would be just too obvious.

Instead, they’ve developed a very veiled and coy little diversion – blame it on the speakers. Yeah…right. If they ever heard any of our “bad” 4-ohm speakers on the right amp (not theirs) and front end gear, they’d be struck speechless – and then quitely back away looking pretty stupid.

-Bob
 
MACCA350

MACCA350

Audioholic Chief
Sorry but thats not a good attitude for the President of a Loudspeakers company in a symbiotic industry.

If it has nothing to do with the speaker why not sell 0.5 ohm speakers and say its not our fault you're amp caught on fire and cant drive them, and the only amp that you can get to run them to normal listening levels cost a gazillion dollars and has to be connected to 3 phase.


cheers:)
 
sts9fan

sts9fan

Banned
But they are not selling 0.5ohm speakers so your point is moot. 4ohm is not unreasonable if the speaker designer likes the way the speaker sounds.
 
MACCA350

MACCA350

Audioholic Chief
I know there not 0.5 ohm(although he does speak about such), I was just saying his attitude is counterproductive and unprofessional.

Zumbo wrote:
I would like to see two similar speakers rated at the same sensitivity, but different ohms, put to the test. Check in room spl at the same level from the same source to see which speaker is louder. I know there are tons of technical formulas to give an answer, but is there time to do a real world test. Or, has this been done already?
Most manufactures rate sensitivity at 2.83V(which at 8 ohm is 1 Watt but at 4 ohm its 2 Watts). On paper, if they are both are rated at 93dB spl (2.83V, 1m) then the 4 ohm will draw twice the power as the 8 ohm for a given spl. But as Gene stated, many amps can't double their power at higher volumes and ohm ratings are an average.

Not sure if you were taking this into account.

cheers:)
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
MACCA350 said:
Zumbo wrote:
I would like to see two similar speakers rated at the same sensitivity, but different ohms, put to the test. Check in room spl at the same level from the same source to see which speaker is louder. I know there are tons of technical formulas to give an answer, but is there time to do a real world test. Or, has this been done already?

cheers:)
Zumbo also wrote:
zumbo said:
I am just trying to shed some light on an overlooked point. Most people are pointed away from a 4ohm speaker because everyone speaks of how hard they are to drive. The way I look at it, it's a form of cheating to get the most out of a well made amp. I don't have an extra set of similar speakers to do the test. But, because of how the impedance fluctuates, I would like to see the outcome. I know it would only matter based on the two speakers being used, but I would love to see it.

I just don't pick a speaker because it's 8ohm. I pick one because I like the way it sounds. If it's 4ohm, I choose the best match I can afford to drive it. Many people are missing out on a variety of great sounding speakers by limiting their choices. I just feel there are more positive points of a 4 ohm speaker that are missed, and I would like to see some of those things shown to support these companies who make such fine products.
 
J

johnhelenjake

Audiophyte
I actually appreciate your bold, straight forward, no nonsense way of communicating. When using politically correct descriptive language people like me really don't get the true message. Thank you very much.
John
 

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