I am a long time home theater enthusiast and have been in the hobby for over 30 years, and this is my first post here on the Audioholics forum. So, Hi! My name is J.C. and I am an Audioholic.
First and foremost, I want to say thank you to Audioholics. You are awesome. I've been reading your site, watching your videos, and participating in live broadcasts for a few months. Thank you for your awesome contributions to the community!
Now, onto my introduction and discussion starter. I have three 6.1 setups in my house (great room, basement, and master bedroom). Well, just last week I upgraded the great room to 7.2.8 (7.2.6 + CH + VoG),and used the "unified layout" for Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, and Auro3D recommended by Denon & Marantz (D+M). However, I am using a Yamaha RX-A3070 so I don't have a way to drive all 17 speakers, yet. I also have a house audio system and a wide variety of smart home products and systems. I continue to tinker and evolve my setup regularly.
My current great room equipment:
1) Speakers: Definitive Technology BP2000 mains, CLR2000 center, Di 5.5BPS surrounds and surround backs, UIW BPZ/A heights and CH, and Di 8R TM and VoG. I use two M&K MX-100 subwoofers, but plan on upgrading those next (probably first going to try a pair of sealed Denovo flat packs and Dayton UM18-22s, and go from there).
2) Receiver/Amps: Yamaha RX-A3070 (9 internal amps, could add two more amp channels for max 7.2.4).
3) Displays: LG C8 65" TV and Epson 5050UB projector (just upgraded from Panasonic PT-AE8000U which is headed to the basement). Screen is a motorized 120" Stewart Filmscreen Greyhawk from 2004.
4) Sources: Panasonic UB820 BD, DISH Hopper 3, Apple TV 4k, Fire TV Stick 4k, Chromecast Ultra
5) Power: Monster Power HTPS MkII
6) In that equipment closet is also the Russound CA6.4i house audio distribution amp. I'm planning on an Echo Input based upgrade of that soon (I'll post that later in a different thread),and it's going to be awesome! Imagine an Echo device that dissapears into a decora light switch form factor in every room of the house that talks to you and plays music through the speakers in that room. My house will soon be Alexa! I'm getting closer to the vision of Star Trek every year.
The great room is 22' wide, open on the right, 15' deep open in the back, and has 12' ceilings. The "open" part is open to the entire rest of the house. It is a multipurpose room, so all speakers are hidden in wall built in, or in custom designed spaces built into the front wall (mains, center, and subs are in custom designed spaces in the front wall with wall color matching grill cloth covering them). I don't listen to two channel in my room. Unlike movie / TV watching where it is a dedicated activity, for music it is not: I am listening while doing other things. In my HT rooms I listen upmixer on DSU or otherwise on a stereo in-ceiling house audio pair in whatever room I'm in. I do regularly sit down to watch movies and TV as a dedicated activity, often with small groups. I don't have "TV in the background", watching it is a dedicated activity.
I was hoping by now the sub $8k 16-channel prepro surge would be well underway and a winner would have emerged. I was also hoping something with Dirac and HDMI 2.1 would have shown up by now, but looks like not yet. So, I'm still in a holding pattern. But, I'd like to prepare for that and fill the gap temporarily with something I can live with until a viable 16 channel processor is available. I don't necessarily want to devolve this thread into discussions of what's coming, because most of them aren't released yet, so we really don't know what will shake out. Trinov and Storm are out if budget. Emotiva RMC-1 and XMC-2 aren't fully baked yet, but evolving nicely. Monoprice HTP-1, Arcam AV40, JBL, etc are all right around the corner. My fingers are crossed that one if those works, or D+M or Yamaha blows us all away with an outstanding 16-channel option in their next flagship offering.
I have a UMIK-1 and REW and regularly measure and tune the Yamaha PEQ by hand. YPAO is okay, but really bad with bass frequencies (as often also mentioned by Gene). I really want to try Dirac.
So, what I really want to discuss here is a temporary filler to drive all my speakers, and more importantly: amplification. I've been reading for months, and have narrowed down the field to a few options to get to 15 channels of amplification for bed+heights and amps for 2-4 subs. I've basically designed my new great room layout around the 17 speaker 7.2.8 "unified layout" specified by D+M for Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, and Aura3D supported by the Denon AVR-X8500H and Marantz AV8805. So, I thought I'd start with one of those. I figured the layout would be also usable by the new 16-channel processors too, so when I upgrade it will be to get to something better than the D+M I choose. What I'm looking for is: DTS:X Pro (DTS out to full 15.1),Aura3D (hopefully out to 15.1),Dirac + bass management, and HDMI 2.1.
Here are my thoughts on options:
1) Get a Denon AVR-X8500H to fill the gap and see what shakes out for 16 channel processors and 15 channel amps. I can defer the amp purchase until I really need it, and retask the Denon to the basement or master bedroom when I do.
Or, get a Marantz AV8805 (I can get a great deal on it) as a filler until I get a 16-channel processor, and some amps that I would probably keep when I swap out the AV8805...
2) maybe some good proven inexpensive starter amps that I might keep or resell and upgrade if I don't think they are keepers. I'm leaning towards the Emotiva A-700 (7x110) for good power for bed layer and A-800 (8x50) adequate for heights. I know the A-800 also doubles as a house audio amp but it has inputs per channel. And the pair of amps works and maps perfectly for 15 channels. Amp cost, around $1200, or about $80/channel.
3) Get some proven amps that will be good for a long time: an Emotiva XPA-7 Gen 3 (7x200) for bed layer and either a custom XPA-8-0-4S for heights or an XPA-11 (better resale than XPA-8-0-4S) and use the three extra high power channels for sub duty. Cost $4200 list plus some discount from my dealer, about $200 / channel.
4) I could do the same thing as above but with Monoprice Monolith 7x and 11x (basically ATI) for $4,100 and no discount, $227 per channel.
5) I could go all out for ATI nCores: ATI AT527NC and AT528NC for $8,000, dealer cost about $5,000 (not sure what discount I can get). At list that's $533/channel so it's probably not an option.
6) Get the best bang for the buck I can get with pro gear and give it a try. I've got a current deal offer for 5x Behringer NX4-6000 amps for $2,000. Those are 4x440, but I think that's a peak rating, so more like 4x220 continuous. If you bridge the 4 channels down to 2 you basically get an NX6000. So, that's 20 channels of amplification, or $100 / channel. I could use one for LCR, (with a spare channel, this will give the front 3 a little extra power with one channel not driven),one for surrounds and backs, one for heights, one for tops +CH, and one bridged for two 4 ohm subs. The power is overkill but the price is awesome. I know I might need to fan mod them to be quiet, but I'm comfortable with that (I build my own PCs). Although I've heard mixed reports the NX6000 fans are not actually as loud as the old iNukes or the NX3000s so it might not be needed. I am a little worried about hiss through speakers because of low S/N, and also NX4-6000 takes a 0.775V max input signal. I dislike noise and love silence (when there's supposed to be silence),and like amplifiers that don't send noise to a speaker when it is supposed to be silent. I have my Epson 5050UB enclosed in a crawl space over the great room so I can run it on high lamp (where it is loud) and not hear it. Does anyone use Behringer NU or NX for full range duty? Any noise issues?
I looked at Crown amps but even using XLS 1002s I can't get anywhere near $100 / channel. I also read some info which indicates the XLS 2502 might roll off ULF, and since I'll want some big EQ boosts at ULF to get the sealed subs flat below 20Hz, I'm not sure having an amp drop output in the ULF range is wise. I know two sealed 18s isn't going to get me to where I want, but I'm going to start there. My suspended floor has an awesome resonance around the fear frequency of 18.98 Hz, and it's awesome for horror flicks. I don't know how much I'll need to really excite the room, but I'm planning on building up and testing a little at a time. Anyway, I digress. I've seen graphs that show the behavior and quotes from Crown reps saying it's true, but I'd like to know if anyone at Audioholics can confirm it with real measurements.
I also know Speakerpower makes some awesome subwoofer amps, but the price puts them out of reach for now. If whatever I choose doesn't cut it, I might consider trying one out.
I am thrifty and like to spend money on home theater wisely (I.e. bang for the buck). I will spend money on things that really make a difference though. I don't mind taking some risks, but I'm not an early adopter. I like my HT equipment, audio equipment, smart home equipment, to just work. I don't mind working with companies on warranty, as long as they honor it. I don't mind paying extra for good service.
I'm leaning towards the 5x NX4-6000. I have until Nov 13 to decide what to do.
What are your thoughts? Please feel free to share ideas I haven't thought of, facts/measurements, and most importantly, your opinions. I have been around a long time and learned a lot, but I'm always open minded and always learning more. I love sharing my passion and knowledge with others and contribute frequently to help others. So, please share your thoughts. I promise I will listen and keep an open mind.
Thank you!
-J.C.
