$650 for rotors and pads (all four wheels)?!

[jinjuku]

File that under outrageous.

I dropped my car off for an oil change and it needed brakes and rotors. They wanted $650 for rotors and pads on all fours.

I just finished my driver side rotor and pads in 45 minutes with hand tools. The parts where $130 all in. What are these shops thinking?

They want $300 / side for the lower control arms. It's like three bolts!

 

[Irvrobinson]

Personally, I think $650 is pretty reasonable. How did you get four rotors and four sets of pads for $130?

 

[jinjuku]

Sorry... $260 for all four in parts. And about 45 minutes a wheel.

It may be reasonable if you are paying a mechanic. I just found that to be a rather expensive rate for something a normal joe can do with a 14mm, 22mm, breaker bar and ratchet.

I'm sure they could knock out a rotor and pad change in 30 minutes. I'm not discounting the fact that they have overhead costs.

I've traditionally done my own brakes, master cylinder, balancer etc... I was just caught by surprise at the costs.

The labor averages out to $150 / hour.

 

[Adam]

If they're getting factory parts, those tend to cost more and probably have a stronger warranty.

Does the shop also warranty/guarantee their service? That's probably part of their overhead charge.

Don't get me wrong, though - if you can do the work yourself, you're definitely going to save some coin. Wrench time isn't cheap. I had an oxygen sensor replaced in my Civic back when I was in college - once. They charged me for an hour of labor. I didn't know what that part was or where it was located at the time (this was before the internet really took off and info was easy to find), but the dealer gladly showed me the part and the install when I asked to see it. It was immediately obvious to me that even I, a car ignoramus, could change it out in five minutes. Plus, non-Honda parts were significantly less expensive. I replaced it myself the next time it went bad.

 

[its phillip]

Yeah, dealerships/car shops almost always charge way too much. My dealership is reasonable about some things though. A synthetic oil change for my civic is $30~$40 depending on coupons and that includes a car wash. That's cheaper than doing it myself.

I also learned on tuesday that they charge $113 for a transmission fluid change which sounds reasonable...I need to find out if they actually do a 3x drain & fill (to get it all changed). If they only do it once, then it's definitely not worth it. If they do the 3x D&F, then it's only $20 more than me doing it and I'd pay for that.

edit: Just called and they only drain and fill it once (~3 quarts) so it's definitely not worth it for me. The ATF is $8.95/quart so I'll just do it myself.

 

[slipperybidness]

File that under outrageous.

I dropped my car off for an oil change and it needed brakes and rotors. They wanted $650 for rotors and pads on all fours.

I just finished my driver side rotor and pads in 45 minutes with hand tools. The parts where $130 all in. What are these shops thinking?

They want $300 / side for the lower control arms. It's like three bolts!

Yup. The silly thing is that $650 is "only a little" on the pricey side! $500 would be about what I would expect for this work at an independent shop, and $650 at the dealership.

When I was young, my dad gave me some of the best advice I have EVER gotten: "Never pay someone to do something that you can do yourself"! Now that I'm older and have a little more $, it all comes down to how much cursing I'll be doing while doing the work, and how hot it is outside (I live in TX and that is a huge factor to consider down here). So, sometimes I just pay somebody to do such work for me even though I know I can do it cheaper.

One HUGE advantage of doing work yourself is that you are 100% sure that it is done CORRECTLY. I am always nervous when I turn my car over to a mechanic. Same with my lab instrumentation at work, several times I have discovered that I know the equipment better than the "vendor expert"!

I did all 4 rotors and pads and changed out the crappy stock front brake lines on my Mustang to the braided-steel variety recently. I installed slotted/drilled rotors, high quality ceramic pads, and those brake lines all in a day (I admit, I was danged sore for the next couple of days). I bought all of these performance parts off of RockAuto.com for $300 delivered!!! That's about what I would pay for the economy stuff at the local parts house.

If you do ever do brake or hydraulic clutch work, do yourself a favor and get one of those "1-man bleeder pumps". I'll never bleed a system any other way again.

 

[markw]

The unmitigated gall those rotten mechanics have to charge enough to pay for their rent, salaries, insurance, utilities, and other incidentals and still have a bit left for profit!

 

[Adam]

When I was young, my dad gave me some of the best advice I have EVER gotten: "Never pay someone to do something that you can do yourself"! Now that I'm older and have a little more $, it all comes down to how much cursing I'll be doing while doing the work...

Well, there's value in paying for convenience (as you were saying) - I can take my own garbage down to the dump, but I'd rather pay someone to bring a truck by my driveway and pick it up. It's probably also cheaper for me doing it that way.

I tried to take up all of my old tile before having new stuff installed, but after hitting my own personal cursing limit, I had the contractors do it.

 

[Rickster71]

The greatest profit is in brakes, shocks, and exhaust. That's why there are so many places that specialize in only that.

DIY is great. One caveat being the wide variability in aftermarket parts. Some are better than OEM and some worst.
There are many different brake pad formulas too.
When you really see the taxes and insurance businesses have to pay, it all starts to add up.

 

[jinjuku]

I just finished putting the 2nd wheel back on. 75 minutes of my time and ~$240 saved.

 

[Rickster71]

If they're getting factory parts, those tend to cost more and probably have a stronger warranty.

Does the shop also warranty/guarantee their service? That's probably part of their overhead charge.

Don't get me wrong, though - if you can do the work yourself, you're definitely going to save some coin. Wrench time isn't cheap. I had an oxygen sensor replaced in my Civic back when I was in college - once. They charged me for an hour of labor. I didn't know what that part was or where it was located at the time (this was before the internet really took off and info was easy to find), but the dealer gladly showed me the part and the install when I asked to see it. It was immediately obvious to me that even I, a car ignoramus, could change it out in five minutes. Plus, non-Honda parts were significantly less expensive. I replaced it myself the next time it went bad.

Lots of good points Adam.
The good old days when there was only one 02 sensor.

Now there is an inboard and outboard on either side of the converter.
A V-6 or V-8 has four and you have to be able to read codes to find which one is bad.
You have to use a slotted socket so the wire doesn't get crushed.

 

[j_garcia]

I paid more than that just for my front calipers And they're OEM

These days, I tend to go with OEM parts period, unless there are aftermarket parts that are clearly better. I had to replace my tie-rod ends recently so I went with Whiteline instead of OEM because they allow additional adjustment and better bushings. The OEM rear rotors for this car are stupid expensive too, because they have both drum and disc. I think they were like $300 by themselves last time I did them.

Yeah, dealerships/car shops almost always charge way too much. My dealership is reasonable about some things though. A synthetic oil change for my civic is $30~$40 depending on coupons and that includes a car wash. That's cheaper than doing it myself.

Yeah, $40 is actually pretty cheap. The oil I'm using alone costs more than that (Torco), The downside is, I would have to TELL them NOT to wash my car. That's the quickest way to ruin your paint. Nobody washes my car but me or a detailer.

I also learned on tuesday that they charge $113 for a transmission fluid change which sounds reasonable...I need to find out if they actually do a 3x drain & fill (to get it all changed). If they only do it once, then it's definitely not worth it. If they do the 3x D&F, then it's only $20 more than me doing it and I'd pay for that.

edit: Just called and they only drain and fill it once (~3 quarts) so it's definitely not worth it for me. The ATF is $8.95/quart so I'll just do it myself.

Don't buy a Subaru then Every 30k you have to change the fluid in all three diffs. I think that typically runs me about $250.

 

[jinjuku]

The unmitigated gall those rotten mechanics have to charge enough to pay for their rent, salaries, insurance, utilities, and other incidentals and still have a bit left for profit!

Hi Mark,

I stated in the first post that I understand they have overhead costs. I did both in 75 minutes. They could knock it out in 30 and I really believe less than that. That is at least $120 and hour and I HONESTLY do not know what a reasonable mechanic labor rate IS.

I thought $650 was just too high.

Anywhoo it ended up being an absolute piece of cake on the 2nd wheel after I had gotten one done.

 

[Rickster71]

Yeah, dealerships/car shops almost always charge way too much. My dealership is reasonable about some things though. A synthetic oil change for my civic is $30~$40 depending on coupons and that includes a car wash. That's cheaper than doing it myself.

I also learned on tuesday that they charge $113 for a transmission fluid change which sounds reasonable...I need to find out if they actually do a 3x drain & fill (to get it all changed). If they only do it once, then it's definitely not worth it. If they do the 3x D&F, then it's only $20 more than me doing it and I'd pay for that.

edit: Just called and they only drain and fill it once (~3 quarts) so it's definitely not worth it for me. The ATF is $8.95/quart so I'll just do it myself.

There will always be fluid left in the torque converter. That's why I always change mine every 20K miles.
Unless you can find a place that does a reverse flush.
If I may make a suggestion: Use synthetic fluid and check to see if you have a changeable filter.

 

[Steve81]

That is at least $120 and hour and I HONESTLY do not know what a reasonable mechanic labor rate IS.

FWIW, in my day-job industry, an "average" overhead (fringe benefits, G&A) rate is along the lines of 130%. So if you've got a guy making $45 an hour, you've got to add $58.50 on top of that to cover your costs, bumping you up to $103.50. Factor in a profit of 10%, bumping you up again $113.85 and you're not too far off of your $120/hr figure.

 

[jinjuku]

FWIW, in my day-job industry, an "average" overhead (fringe benefits, G&A) rate is along the lines of 130%. So if you've got a guy making $45 an hour, you've got to add $58.50 on top of that to cover your costs, bumping you up to $103.50. Factor in a profit of 10%, bumping you up again $113.85 and you're not too far off of your $120/hr figure.

How many ASE Certified mechanics make $90K a year?

 

[j_garcia]

$120 is approximately the going dealership rate.

 

[its phillip]

There will always be fluid left in the torque converter. That's why I always change mine every 20K miles.
Unless you can find a place that does a reverse flush.
If I may make a suggestion: Use synthetic fluid and check to see if you have a changeable filter.

I've read it's good to do a 3x drain & fill - drain however many quarts come out (should be ~2.5), refill, drive around for 10 minutes, and then do it a couple more times. After all that you should have around 90% of the fluid changed. I'll be using OEM fluid (Honda ATF-DW1). After the first 3x drain and fill you can just do a single drain and fill at every oil change (~8000-10000 miles).

The filter is internal and changing it would require the transmission to be opened up so I definitely won't be doing that.

 

[Steve81]

How many ASE Certified mechanics make $90K a year?

Probably not many, but then again, how many "unassigned" hours do they sit there and drink coffee while waiting for someone to bring a car in for service? How much do they have to make up for loss leaders ($20 oil change!)? Those aren't factors for my employer, but they certainly matter for automotive services.

 

[Rickster71]

How many ASE Certified mechanics make $90K a year?

It depends on a few things.
Certain cars require more training and skill for repair, and mechanics with these skills are paid very well.
They make their real money by doing the job faster than the time allotted in the book.

BMW and Volvo - Master techs, can earn upward of $120,000 a year. C techs start at $40K there.
A good friend of mine is a Volvo master tech and makes over $100K.
I believe it judging form his house, new Corvette, fifth wheel trailer, and all his toys.