5 SMALL SUB SHOOTOUT at S&V

P

Peter Marcks

Banned
This is the response I posted at some other sites regarding this review:

There appears to be a typo in the full lab results. The text of the VTF-3 Mk3 should say: Removing the Turbo extension increased maximum output about 2.3 dB from 25 to 62 Hz and 10 dB at 20 Hz.

The VTF-3 Mk3 in maximum output mode (both ports open, no turbo) would have the following THD-limited output:

32-62Hz (avg): 107.9db (approx.)
25-62Hz (avg): 107.3db
20-62Hz (avg): 106.6db
25Hz: 105db (approx.)
20Hz: 103db
Frequency response: 24 to 85 Hz ±1.6 dB

This is pretty impressive, especially for a subwoofer that is on sale right now for $629!

Regarding the VTF-3 Mk3 with Turbo, there is something strange about the deep bass results (16-25Hz). The THD-limited output at these frequencies should be much higher. For instance, the 20Hz output should be very close between maximum output mode and turbo mode, and 16Hz should be close to the 20Hz output. I noticed that there was a comment made in the review about needing to prop the unit up against the wall to get it to stay in place. This shouldn't be necessary. After all, how else could we test the unit outdoors with good results then? What might have happened is that there was an air leak from the turbocharger due to lack of a good seal between turbo ports and base enclosure. Or perhaps even the carpet grip was not placed underneath the turbo to keep it from moving around. Also, microphone position may have had some affect depending on where it was placed. It is important to keep the microphone equidistant from all radiating sources (ie. driver and port centroid) to ensure an accurate representation of the actual acoustic output of the subwoofer. Dr. Hsu will be contacting TN to discuss.

I would like to thank Sound and Vision magazine for the very kind review!
 
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Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks for the post. Interesting read. Did you read the "Tiny Killer Subs" review (access from pg 13)? I'm amazed those little 8" drivers put out that type of bass.
I second the "thanks." Just a remark on 8" drivers from a man with very limited sub experience. I've owned two "subwoofers." My first was a B&W ASW1000 (12" driver, I believe) that I still use today. My second came with an Altec Lansing PC speaker set and had an 8" driver coupled with a Dolby Digital decoder and good amp. Truth be told, when it came to shear bass excitement, the PC sub was my favorite. I probably just outed myself as a false audioholic considering that I prefered it, but that thing had punch. How deep did it go? I have no idea, but probably not too low. I'm sure that it also had to do with the size of room that each had to cover, but that PC sub gave me one of those "oh sweet mother of all that is good and pure" moments when it first came to life that I still have never had with the B&W.
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
Yep, surprisingly. I thought that Hsu would do better
Are we reading the same review? Unless I read it completely wrong, I thought the author liked the HSU the best of all with the Velodyne also up there. The Klipsch was so-so. That was my take anyway.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Are we reading the same review? Unless I read it completely wrong, I thought the author liked the HSU the best of all with the Velodyne also up there. The Klipsch was so-so. That was my take anyway.
If Tom made a typo, or S&V, then it may be a different story, By the numbers printed, while it goes to 16Hz, it is not what some of the others can do. But, this is contingent on what was printed, not if there are printing errors.
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
Maybe I'm missing something but I believe the HSU had the best lower bass extension of all the subs in the group.

The conclusion...

The Lowdown
The SVS SB12-Plus is a small but capable performer. It cannot shake a house loose from its foundations, but it can provide a tight and musical bass line and shake the room during action movie scenes. Plus, its control features could save the day in a room with acoustic problems. The Klipsch RW-12d was good but not great. It had some impressive moments in which it really surprised me with the quantity of its bass output. But it also had some awkward moments in which the tonal quality just wasn't up to par. The Outlaw LFM-1EX can really kick it, with impressive extension and output. Used in moderation, it sounds really good, though, as is true for any subwoofer, really, sound quality can go downhill when it's pushed too hard. The Velodyne DLS-5000R was a musical delight. Its tonal balance was superb, and under normal conditions, it rarely sounded stressed. It moved more than enough air for movie playback and punched up the action sequences nicely. This is an all-around great-sounding subwoofer with the bonus of a remote control to help you dial it in. The Hsu VTF-3 MK3 is a very impressive subwoofer. Its roomy, robust cabinet makes it an ideal bass launching pad. With the added Turbo boost, it can successfully tackle almost any low-frequency challenge you throw at it. Moreover, it sounds musical, with a smooth tonal balance across its operating range. If you have enough room for its sizable cabinet, and you don't mind its look with the Turbocharger installed, this Hsu Research subwoofer will deliver the goods for you.
 
emorphien

emorphien

Audioholic General
Well that article was a miserable disappointment. I would be much more interested if the article were true to the title of this thread. Those are all average sized, mid-priced subs as the S&V states.

A small sub shootout would be very nice, putting some of the popular 8" and 10" models against each other (AV123 X-sub, Mirage S8, Outlaw LFM2/HSU STF-1, etc). Oh well. :(
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Well that article was a miserable disappointment. I would be much more interested if the article were true to the title of this thread. Those are all average sized, mid-priced subs as the S&V states.

A small sub shootout would be very nice, putting some of the popular 8" and 10" models against each other (AV123 X-sub, Mirage S8, Outlaw LFM2/HSU STF-1, etc). Oh well. :(
Yes, they were not 8" subs, very small subs but they are smaller than some 18" subs or arrayed subs of several 12"-18", so, these could be considered small. I did. You didn't. Cannot please everyone all the time.
 
emorphien

emorphien

Audioholic General
Hence why I called them "average" sized. :)

You can go a lot smaller, and a lot bigger.
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
emorphien, you might enjoy the link on page 13 for "Tiny Killer Subs" that Buckeyefan 1 pointed out.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Yep, surprisingly. I thought that Hsu would do better :(
Is there a 'scratch my head' emoticon? From reading the review the HSU sub came out on top. I was left with the impression that the HSU did good from that article.

One thing I wanted more information on was their testing methology.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Is there a 'scratch my head' emoticon? From reading the review the HSU sub came out on top. I was left with the impression that the HSU did good from that article.

One thing I wanted more information on was their testing methology.
Yes, it needs one of those icons. :D

Did you check the test bench section? Wanted more details perhaps?

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/2311/test-bench-five-mid-price-subwoofers.html

If the test data is correct, not a misprint for the Hsu, some of the others do go higher spls and in some case a lots but the Hsu does go to 16 Hz. I wonder how much is that 83 dB spl at 16Hz, not number wise but feel and hear wise.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Is there a 'scratch my head' emoticon? From reading the review the HSU sub came out on top. I was left with the impression that the HSU did good from that article.

One thing I wanted more information on was their testing methology.
The icon you were looking for was :confused:

Not a scratch head, but shows that you are puzzled.:)
 

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