J

jackdean101

Audioholic Intern
So it seems that most everything I use is 5.1. Example, xbox 360, playstation III, cable television, and computer. I know eventually everything will probably upgrade to 7.1, but for now is it worth spending the money on 7.1 or should I be looking for nicer 5.1 systems. My money is already very limited so I want the best bang for the buck.

What happens when I use my xbox 360 with 5.1 on a 7.1 system??? Do the 2 extra speakers not work, or do they play the same as the forward spearks....???

Thanks for the info!!!
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
7.1 is not a discrete format; ie there are no discs that have 7.1 discrete channels recorded.

To use the 7 speakers you need to use a matrix decoder like ProLogic IIx. PLIIx can take any 2 channel (analog or digital) source and turn it into 7.1. It can also take 5.1 DD/DTS or 6.1 DD-EX and turn it into 7.1.

If you only have 5.1 speakers and play only 5.1 discs, you simply tell the receiver that you don't have surround back speakers (then PLIIx won't even be an available surround mode).

It's getting pretty difficult to find a receiver that is 5.1 only anyway. Having a receiver capable of 7.1 buys the chance to use it if you ever do decide to buy surround back speakers and some of the models (usually in the $500+ range) have Zone2 capability where you can play 5.1 in the main zone and 2 channel in the second zone.
 
E

EastCoaster

Junior Audioholic
jackdean101 said:
So it seems that most everything I use is 5.1. Example, xbox 360, playstation III, cable television, and computer. I know eventually everything will probably upgrade to 7.1, but for now is it worth spending the money on 7.1 or should I be looking for nicer 5.1 systems. My money is already very limited so I want the best bang for the buck.

What happens when I use my xbox 360 with 5.1 on a 7.1 system??? Do the 2 extra speakers not work, or do they play the same as the forward spearks....???

Thanks for the info!!!
Most of what you would need is already accomplished by a 5.1 system, and the extra two channels give you only ambient audio. Add to that the lack of content in 7.1 (everything that's out there is basically 5.1), the extra expense of buying two more speakers and a 7.1 receiver, finding more space in the room, etc., and it's almost not worth it if you're not the kind that wants the latest and best - always. The best bang for your buck would be to buy a 5.1 system from a better manufacturer than you would have bought the 7.1 from - and you're likely to get a better deal on the 5.1 also...
 
davidtwotrees

davidtwotrees

Audioholic General
Before I went to seperates, I got a Pioneer VSX09Tx 5.1 receiver for $200 on ebay. You could launch the freaking space shuttle with that thing! My point being that, like the previous poster said, unless you are the latest greatest type, the 5.1 is really what is out there. And thanks to the guys that must have the latest greatest, you can get two year old models for 25% of what they sold for new..........
 
xboxweasel

xboxweasel

Full Audioholic
DTS ES has 6.1 discrete channels. The new HD DTS formats will supports 7.1 discrete channels DTS ES has 6.1 discrete channels. The new HD DTS formats will supports 7.1 discrete channels. Whether they get used is up to Hollywood. :D
 
G

GreenJelly

Banned
I really think 7.1 was an attempt to sell more speakers... It failed...

Why?

Because unless you have a un-godly amount of room, you just wont notice the difference. 7 speaker channels in 99% of our homes just doesnt provide enough space for the sound to develop.

Computers and a Few DVD's are the ONLY things to support 7.1! Computer games are the only true 7.1 sound source available, but dont expect to output it via a SPDIF output.
 
BJWagner

BJWagner

Enthusiast
GreenJelly said:
I really think 7.1 was an attempt to sell more speakers... It failed...

Why?

Because unless you have a un-godly amount of room, you just wont notice the difference. 7 speaker channels in 99% of our homes just doesnt provide enough space for the sound to develop.

Computers and a Few DVD's are the ONLY things to support 7.1! Computer games are the only true 7.1 sound source available, but dont expect to output it via a SPDIF output.
That's a good explanation of the overkill of 7.1. I to have been thinking about going with 7.1 or staying with 5.1. In January I plan to buy Yamaha's RX-V2700 receiver and buy all new speakers, probably Axiom's, and have been debating if 7.1 is really necessary. It seems funny that you'd have 4 lesser speakers behind you and only 3 speakers in front that are way more important to the movie's overall soundtrack. I think it's much more important to have a good center channel for dialog and decent fronts than 4 discreet speakers behind you when 2 should suffice in a normal size room.
 
E

EastCoaster

Junior Audioholic
BJWagner said:
In January I plan to buy Yamaha's RX-V2700 receiver and buy all new speakers, probably Axiom's, and have been debating if 7.1 is really necessary.
I just upgraded to the Yamaha RX-V2700 a week ago (from the V2600), and will probably be upgrading from the 2700 again in January. If you want a substantial discount, you can have mine! (nothing wrong with it, it's A-stock, but I know I'm going to go in a diff. direction in Jan.).
 
BJWagner

BJWagner

Enthusiast
EastCoaster said:
I just upgraded to the Yamaha RX-V2700 a week ago (from the V2600), and will probably be upgrading from the 2700 again in January. If you want a substantial discount, you can have mine! (nothing wrong with it, it's A-stock, but I know I'm going to go in a diff. direction in Jan.).
Thanks for the offer, but I've already committed to buy one from a good friend who owns a local Soundsaround.
 
Jack Hammer

Jack Hammer

Audioholic Field Marshall
GreenJelly said:
Because unless you have a un-godly amount of room, you just wont notice the difference. 7 speaker channels in 99% of our homes just doesnt provide enough space for the sound to develop.

Computers and a Few DVD's are the ONLY things to support 7.1! Computer games are the only true 7.1 sound source available, but dont expect to output it via a SPDIF output.
Good point. At this point there aren't a lot of movies that make a huge difference between 5.1 and 7.1. The ones that you will notice it on are Pearl Harbor, when planes fly over and Saw, opening scene when the dialog comes from behind you. There are a few other movies that also make good use of the rears, but for the most part those who have 5.1 don't need to be in any rush to add the additional speakers.

Some people argued that you only need two speakers in front, with a phantom center when the center channel was added to the mix. As movies came out that utilized that new channel, it made a bigger difference, til now most people use it. Currently there aren't a lot of movies using the rear speaker(s). That is beginning to change. Remember that the surround channel used to be a mono signal, now it is usually a r/l.

People in larger rooms will most likely notice more of an improvement, but again, it's only going to be in a limited selection at this point. eventually many more movies will be released in 6.1, and eventually maybe 7.1. Look at how older movies have been released over time, it went from mono (1.0) to stereo (2.0) to 3.0, 4.0, 4.1, 5.1, 6.1, to ??? More and more often people are starting to add dedicated home theater rooms. This will drive the industry to add more channels and try to improve the overall experience. 6.1/7.1 isn't geared toward people who watch tv in a 8x10 room, it's geared toward larger dedicated home theaters.

So, if you have some speakers laying around and want to experiment, go for it. but like I said earlier most people don't need to be in a rush to add those additional channels.
 
G

GreenJelly

Banned
5.1 came out as a result of the failure of Quadaphonic sound in the 70s. The companies studied human hearing, and found that the center channel was needed to help differentate between front and back.

The problem comes, in that when they started adding more and more speakers, less and less people could tell the difference. Lets face the fact, some people have VERY exceptional hearing, while others lack in certain areas. We are all different, and to recognize the extreme potential arrangement of our ears is a very hard task. Doctors and Psycologists have been working for decades now understanding the principles of sound.

First is how we hear the music... What comes into our ears, the volume, direction, and distortion all effect our opinion

Second is how we feel the BASS... This area is not audible but actually is felt on the skin.

Third is how the sound makes us Feel... This is an overall experiance of what happens when we hear music. This is less objective then the past two, and is where psycologists are needed.

From what I understand, that without a very large area (like a theater) the sound wont develop, and just wont be noticed. The problem has been tested and have shown that this is the case for a large population.

However, this will remain an area of debate, in a world were people insist that $10,000 speaker cable makes a difference to the sound then $10 lamp cord wire. BTW; I saw a test using a half of a million dollars of sound equipment, and then put Audiophiles in a room and listened to a $10,000 speaker cable vrs 5 strung together coat hangers. Turns out the coat hangers won the contest by 1 vote.
 
E

EastCoaster

Junior Audioholic
GreenJelly said:
BTW; I saw a test using a half of a million dollars of sound equipment, and then put Audiophiles in a room and listened to a $10,000 speaker cable vrs 5 strung together coat hangers. Turns out the coat hangers won the contest by 1 vote.
Is there any documentation of that test? Would love to have it...
 
Geno

Geno

Senior Audioholic
I have a 7.1 channel system, but there's another reason for the extra 2 channels not mentioned here yet. Some people like listening to movies with the surrounds being dipoles (a more diffuse soundfield), while music sounds better with direct-firing speakers in the rear channels. Some receivers & processors let you set them up for that scenario.
 
G

GreenJelly

Banned
EastCoaster said:
I just upgraded to the Yamaha RX-V2700 a week ago (from the V2600), and will probably be upgrading from the 2700 again in January. If you want a substantial discount, you can have mine! (nothing wrong with it, it's A-stock, but I know I'm going to go in a diff. direction in Jan.).
Sounds like you need to start buying Denons... They offer a upgrade program for all of their top receivers.
 
G

GreenJelly

Banned
EastCoaster said:
Is there any documentation of that test? Would love to have it...
Yeah... let me see if my uncle has the link...

Maybe someone should patent coat hangers as stereo speaker wire, then sell them for $5,000!

Thats 1/2 the price of the compaired wire...

hahaha
Mike
 
Last edited:
E

EastCoaster

Junior Audioholic
GreenJelly said:
Sounds like you need to start buying Denons... They offer a upgrade program for all of their top receivers.
Well, it normally wouldn't be my choice to go through two receivers in a year (which will happen by January) but I'd like to get to HDMI 1.3 and "rest" there for a while. I'm also going to get rid of my 37" Sharp LCD and go for a 1080p screen at the same time (my 37" was bought for $2,499 10 months ago, and worth $1,200 if I'm lucky today - oye!).
 
G

GreenJelly

Banned
Denons are one of the best, and since you are upgrading so often, and you are buying Yamaha's (yuck), then I would recomend going to Denon.

As for your LCD, it will sell NEW for around $1.8K...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824007067

I would be happy if I could get $900..

Id buy it off of you right now for $500... I was going to buy a new LCD (36") and was expecing to spend 1200-1400... I wanted to wait a few months, maybe when XMas hits, and the sales start going...

Look at the price of this one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16889101045

and then look at the resolution...

or Sharp
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16889101045R
$1.4K
 
J

jackdean101

Audioholic Intern
EastCoaster said:
I just upgraded to the Yamaha RX-V2700 a week ago (from the V2600), and will probably be upgrading from the 2700 again in January. If you want a substantial discount, you can have mine! (nothing wrong with it, it's A-stock, but I know I'm going to go in a diff. direction in Jan.).

What would you sell it for???
 

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