lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
ChickenSchmidt,

Okay I will admit up front, I am a Def Tech fan boy.

But the 7004s with a CLR 2500 center would be awesome. This is where I would spend 1/2 to 2/3s of your budget.

Remember, surrounds and presense speakers are secondary you main thrust and sound quality is from your Fronts and Center. The also don't have to match. Fronts and Center need to match to maintain timbre ( seamless front sound). You could always add surrounds later.

Next item is a good sub, my favorite brand is SVS. Hsu is also good.

The Emotiva UMC-1 and UPA-7 are very nice but don't discount looking at a good higher end Marantz. Denon or Onkyo receiver.


Good Luck ! - 5k is nice budget ;)

Forest Man

P.S.- I was just getting ready to challenge you to a pool match:rolleyes:
For 5k I'd suggest you check out the B&W 700 series. Pair that with a good sub(SVS, HSU, Epik) and maybe one of those clearance Marantz receiver from accessories4less and you'd be set.

My personal favorite is the B&W 705. It's one of the only speakers I'd give up my builds for.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Which begs the question - with so many independent US speaker manufacturers selling 4ohm bookshelf designs for HT now, why are the receiver makers currently producing such limited amp sections. I see this creating a disconnect in the industry if it continues. I'm thinking something will have to give, eventually. Maybe the Japanese are, once again, intentionally making it difficult for US manufacturers to compete using their platforms. I suspect that Japanese receivers probably have no problem pushing Japanese speakers, esp the crap ones being marketed here in the States.

I love a good conspiracy.

DJ
Its not that simple. In order to provide high powers you need a lower impedance, as otherwise the voltage gets so high the output devices spark across the semiconductor material and fail. However low impedance requires large current and therefore robust output devices and power supplies. This increases heat, in a box with increasingly complex and frail microprocessor chips. And yes there is a trade off between complexity and speed versus fragility.

In order to correct for the diffraction roll off of narrow fronted cabinets, dropping the impedance below 600 Hz is pretty much mandatory.

For these reasons I regard receivers as a solution of convenience. There is nothing else to recommend that approach.

The real way out of this mess is pre pros and active speakers. In addition to avoiding all the issues of passive crossovers, diffraction loss is applied ahead of amplification, which makes the whole issue of amp design easier, and cheaper.

I'm convinced that if the industry got geared that way, and ditched the receiver concept, then you cold get better performance at less cost, and with greater reliability.

As well as less capable amp sections I see an increasingly shortened life span for receivers.

If the new receivers are only putting 70 watts into a resistive 8 ohm load under test, then they are only putting about 25 watts into most real speaker loads.

The real issue is that receivers were never a good idea, and with the increasingly complex environment, they become a worse idea by the year. Persisting with the concept is going to limit performance gains and reliability from here on out.

The other issue is power consumption. I think it is only a matter of time before regulatory agencies demand class D amps. They are already regulating TV power consumption in Europe, and now California. The move to class D will pretty much cause a change to active speakers in my view, as class D amps hate complex impedance curves. Also half or more of the provided power will not be wasted in the passive crossovers as is now the case. Second order crossover consume around half of the amp power and a lot of fourth order ones close to two thirds.

I think it is only a matter of time before energy conserving legislation tips the balance to active speakers.
 
davidtwotrees

davidtwotrees

Audioholic General
.......I think it is only a matter of time before energy conserving legislation tips the balance to active speakers.
And my Quad 12L Actives in Gloss Cherry should be arriving Today, Thank you very much...........
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
They dropped before this year actually and there ratings are usually overinflated in recent years. They make awesome power amps and even nice PA speakers, but the recent crop of receivers are disappointing.

HK is probably your best budget receiver for power, but HDMI did a number on their receivers. If they'd done a better standard HK might be the leader in the industry, but the handshake issues make me want to cry at times.

Onkyo receivers run warm in temperature and I've heard about some bad soldering in their recent receivers too. A side effect of lead being banned. Because someone might eat their receiver. :rolleyes:

I think my next receiver if I ever buy another one. Will be a Denon or Marantz. I've not heard a lot of negative stuff about their offerings. The official threads tend to be short.

I'd suggest you look at those 2 brands at this point.
Every manufacturing including H/K and Denon are starting to lighten their weight so that they can retain their profits. They are no different than Yamaha. I have the RX-V1800 and its amplifiers are quite solid and it doesn't have trouble driving a 4 ohm load. My T45s although nominal 6ohms are more a 4 ohm speaker than a 6 ohm speaker and my ears have given out long before the amp or the receiver. The other point I want to caution about is that the recent weight drop of Yamaha models (although I suspect a drop in sustained output power) does not necesarily mean a power loss. Until bench tested, its still speculative conjecture on everyone's part including mine and yours.
 
F

Funkmonkey

Junior Audioholic
I'm not sure if you've made your final choices yet, or not, but I wanted to recommend that you look into Salk speakers as well. Song series would most likely be a good fit for you, and as they present an easy load for any receiver that produces an honest 100wpc. Most of the midrange AVRs (even this years models) can do that.

After waiting about a year and a half, I recently decided on an AVR to suit my own needs. Pre-outs were essential for me, and I liked the feature set of the Denon, Marantz, Pioneer Elite and the Onkyo models. Ultimately I decided on the Denon 3310ci, because I was able to get it for a good price, and (like lsiberian mentioned) the official threads tend to be short. (this is significant because it is usually the people that have problems that post in those threads, so short thread = not that many problems) :)

I'll only be using it's amplifier section to power surrounds, and height channels eventually. My L/C/R channels (Salk HT3, and HTC) present a heavy load so I am using very heavy amps to drive them. If I had slightly more efficient speakers and were actually using the amp section to drive my fronts I most likely would have opted for an Onkyo, or Marantz for their amp sections. The Marantz that I liked (SR6004) has some problems with it's initial run, but once those are resolved it will be a killer bargain. In all honesty I would have opted for a much less expensive AVR if the intro models actually had pre-outs. Oh yeah, networking also turned out to factor into my decision. In this age of software driven processing, the ability to update firmware via an internet connection was way too convenient for me to pass up.

Cheers, and good luck.
 
S

Socialcircle

Enthusiast
Def Tech CLR 2000

I have a Def Tech CLR 2000 in very good condition. If you want to save a little $$, then you might want to consider it. I recently replaced it with a Dynaudio Contour Center to match my Dynaudio mains.

I can let it go for $100 firm plus you pay shipping. I live in Georgia.
 
J

jlettie

Audiophyte
Nad receivers

I,m thankfull I found this websight. You have saved me thousands of dollars and I have not spent any money yet!!!! I think lol!!

Six weeks ago I walked into a Magnolia store looking to upgrade me living room sound system. Bose lifestyle something. Listened to the Klipsh, Martin Logan, Definitive. Went back 3 times and almost went with the Defintives 7004 with a 2000 lcr and bp2x. No sub.

I found out the living room is off limits but I could get the finished basement turned around. Now I have permission!!

I have a 32' x 15' room with a 12' x 18' L offset a the back end. The 32' wall has just drywall with a 7' high armstrong suspended ceiling. I figured about 4200 cu ft. The other wall has the offset room and a staircase up stairs.

So after 1 month of reading and reading I widlled it down to a few speakers systems. Aperion 6T-DB- XB 5.1. Axiom m-80-500 5.1. [[SVS MTS-1 5.1. comes with a PB13 ultra sub.]]

So anyway the Aperion are 6 ohms Axiom M-80,s are 4ohm, SVS 4ohm, Emotvia 4ohm,s.

My question is which AVR is capable of running the 4 ohm speakers??? Denon was my first choice but now they seem week at 4 ohms. Onkyo,s run hot don,t want that, perhaps Yamaha. Pioneer?? I want an Avr that will push these speakers at 4 ohms that I can just turn on and go. Last night I was at Emotvia site looking at UMC-1 and a UPA-7. I just don,t want to get into all that just yet. Perhaps Between $1000. and $1300

Thanks for any advice. It seems I,m back full circle to my Definitives which I really like and perhaps some Acends Sierra-1 both at 8 ohms.
The best receivers to run 4 ohm speakers are NAD receivers. I am trying to put together a 7.1 entertainment system. I like both the POLK LSI 25s and PSB Synchrony One speakers. Both speakers are 4 ohm speakers and power hungry. I visited an authorized NAD dealership. I auditioned both the POLK LSI 25s and the PSB Synchrony One speakers. The tech first hooked the POLKS to an NAD T775. Then he changed the wiring and hooked the PSB Synchrony One to the NAD T775. Both speakers sounded very good. The tech suggested I hook up either speakers to a power amp. I asked why? He said that the speakers would sound better & keep the receiver's Amp from overheating. I decided to phone NAD and spoke to one of the tech's there. I asked him, do I need to hookup 4 ohm speakers to a power amp to run 4 ohm speakers. He asked me which 4 ohm speakers. I explained either the POLK LSI25s or the PSB Synchrony One speakers. He said I should use either the NAD T775 or the T785. Both receivers are able to run these speakers with no stress or overheating. Beware of some salesman trying to make you spend more money.
 
C

ChickenSchmidt

Enthusiast
Wow 6 months already!! Here is where I,m at today. After all the help and advice I thank you all that helped. I have been lurking and reading and I will post some pics when I get a chance.

Pioneer Elite Sc-25 Thanks for sending me inside Best Buy $999!!
Best Buy wouldn,t deal so I ended up at a nice high end store and got a good price on 2
Def Tek 7002 and a 2002 center. They had a few home theater rooms set up in there and I liked the B&W 802,s they had set up. Too much money for those. I,m using some old Altec Santana II,s for my surounds
10 weeks ago I purchased a SVS pb12 plus. This changed everything sound wise.
Also purchased a 58" in Samsung plazma. Went to buy a 54 inch Panasonic and walked out with a 58" Samsung for $1000.00. Not top of the line but very nice picture. This is $200 less than I paid for my 36 inch tube tv 12 years ago.

So I burned up that $5 grand and tossed a little more on top of it. However I knew this going in so I,m very happy with the sound system.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Wow 6 months already!! Here is where I,m at today. After all the help and advice I thank you all that helped. I have been lurking and reading and I will post some pics when I get a chance.

Pioneer Elite Sc-25 Thanks for sending me inside Best Buy $999!!
Best Buy wouldn,t deal so I ended up at a nice high end store and got a good price on 2
Def Tek 7002 and a 2002 center. They had a few home theater rooms set up in there and I liked the B&W 802,s they had set up. Too much money for those. I,m using some old Altec Santana II,s for my surounds
10 weeks ago I purchased a SVS pb12 plus. This changed everything sound wise.
Also purchased a 58" in Samsung plazma. Went to buy a 54 inch Panasonic and walked out with a 58" Samsung for $1000.00. Not top of the line but very nice picture. This is $200 less than I paid for my 36 inch tube tv 12 years ago.

So I burned up that $5 grand and tossed a little more on top of it. However I knew this going in so I,m very happy with the sound system.
Well I'd go for the bigger size too.
 
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