3D screen, what's the scoop BMX?

[jostenmeat]

Does the material give up anything for our basic 2D bluray viewing?

How does this technically work to help out 3D?

 

[10010011]

3D technology works by polarization.

For instance right eye vertical polarized left eye horizontal polarized. The glasses only let the eye see the picture that is polarized for that eye. The images are shifted to add depth and projection. That is why if you look at a 3D program without the glasses you see double images.

A screen design that can retain 99% polarization could certainly improve the effect.

Will it make a 2D program 3D?

Nope.

 

[basspig]

Bet it's not acoustically-transparent..

 

[jostenmeat]

3D technology works by polarization.

For instance right eye vertical polarized left eye horizontal polarized. The glasses only let the eye see the picture that is polarized for that eye. The images are shifted to add depth and projection. That is why if you look at a 3D program without the glasses you see double images.

A screen design that can retain 99% polarization could certainly improve the effect.

Will it make a 2D program 3D?

Nope.

I already knew all of the above. You failed to answer my questions.

I want to know how the screen is designed, and how that technically improves stereoscopic polarization.

I can explain how weaves work for AT.

I can explain how emulsifed glass beads work for retroreflectivity.

I can explain why some screens can reduce hotspotting more than others.

I cannot explain how this screen works to improve polarization, and if there would be any negative side effects for 2D BD viewing.

 

[10010011]

I cannot explain how this screen works to improve polarization, and if there would be any negative side effects for 2D BD viewing.

I am guessing that in general it has a lower reflectivity, that causes less light scattering, and that helps retain polarization.

The only negative side effects I can think of is possibly a slightly darker image.

In reality it probably just a marketing gimmick anyway.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I already knew all of the above. You failed to answer my questions.

I want to know how the screen is designed, and how that technically improves stereoscopic polarization.

I can explain how weaves work for AT.

I can explain how emulsifed glass beads work for retroreflectivity.

I can explain why some screens can reduce hotspotting more than others.

I cannot explain how this screen works to improve polarization, and if there would be any negative side effects for 2D BD viewing.

Polarized screens I'm NOT an expert on but the general concept is that you would need a projector with a spinning polarizer and high output rate or a dual projector setup with individual polarization and then this screen will allow for polarized glasses to deliver the 3D effect as you got if you saw Avatar.

This is different than the standard which Blu-ray is striving for with 3D which uses a single, standard 3D (120hz source) projector with a 3D BD player (120hz content delivery, AVC 3D format) and active shutter glasses.

The plus side is that you can use cheap glasses.

The down side is that you need all the polarization equipment at the projector side of things to make it all work - which is very expensive when you only have a few viewers who aren't likely to steal your $.29 glasses.

Far less expensive to get a standard screen and a (forthcoming) 3D capable 1080p projector from Panasonic or Epson this fall, and then pair it with good 3D active shutter glasses.

There is no ill effects from 2D viewing on a polarized screen as long as you aren't wearing the polarized glasses as far as I know. This is the same type of screen used at 3D theaters and prior to the film starting you likely will see 2D previews without any issue at all.

This is just not the type of 3D which is being planned for home delivery this year... it's far more complex.

 

[MidnightSensi]

One thing to maybe look into is if it would have any off-axis issues.

Like with polarized sunglasses, if you tilt your head so that a 45-deg polarized (say.... GPS) screen is aligned with your 0-90 deg polarized sunglasses, the screen will go black. If you keep the polarizations aligned, the light passes and you can see the screen. Something like that, anyways....they probably have that figured out for 3D, as if off-axis the screen got darker it would be pretty obvious.

Just a thought anyways.

...

One thing I noticed about the screen in that picture is the fit and finish is kinda awry. If you look at the shadows you can see the surround is uneven and wavy. That would look pretty bad in a theater with overhead spot lighting (most). Just an observation, technically makes no difference.

 

[BMXTRIX]

One thing to maybe look into is if it would have any off-axis issues.

This is part of the requirement to need a special screen if you are using a dual projection polarized setup. You don't really have off-axis issues because the polarization is 90 degrees apart and setup for people sitting upright in chairs. Not sure it works well at all with people who meat their head sideways.

This does a pretty good job of showing it:
http://www.mindspring.com/~dmerriman/Imaxwrk.htm

Like with polarized sunglasses, if you tilt your head so that a 45-deg polarized (say.... GPS) screen is aligned with your 0-90 deg polarized sunglasses, the screen will go black. If you keep the polarizations aligned, the light passes and you can see the screen. Something like that, anyways....they probably have that figured out for 3D, as if off-axis the screen got darker it would be pretty obvious.

Polarization is more about rotation, not about angle. The screen maintains polarization very similar to how a LCD screen does and it's the rotation of the glasses which really affects things, not the viewing angle.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Just an additional reminder: Home 3D is NOT done this way unless you are rolling in the $$$. This is IMAX style 3D.

Home 3D will be more like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD_shutter_glasses

You can use your existing front projector screen and may even be able to get some results using your current projector and Blu-ray player. Not as good as final spec. 3D will be with a proper 3D projector, but still a lot better than we have seen to date in our homes.

 

[jostenmeat]

Just an additional reminder: Home 3D is NOT done this way unless you are rolling in the $$$. This is IMAX style 3D.

That's what I figured. What I was more curious about is how it works in-between the PJ and screen. Will any 3D BD work for either the "IMAX" or active shutter glasses? (Obviously, I don't know jack.) If not, must there be some super-expensive software/algorithm that can make it work for the IMAX version? OK, that seems highly improbable.

Then, if you have two separate projectors . . . they can't be playing the exact same thing, otherwise it's just like having "stacked" PJs. Is it some switch that makes one . . . um . . . "out of phase" or something?

Sorry, I don't even know what questions to ask! lol

You can use your existing front projector screen and may even be able to get some results using your current projector and Blu-ray player. Not as good as final spec. 3D will be with a proper 3D projector, but still a lot better than we have seen to date in our homes.

Have you tried a demo of the active shutter stuff? If so, how is it compromised compared to the IMAX stuff, and to what extent?

Thanks for letting me pick yer brain.

 

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

Da-Lite designed this fabric exclusively for 3-D viewing.

The properties and characteristics of this fabric help 3-D images by maintaining 99% of the circular or L/R horizontal polarized light. The fabric's texture helps to eliminate ghosting and crosstalk that plague stereoscopic 3-D images. The high contrast help to improve the low light output issues related to 3-D

I would not recommend using this screen for any 2-D projection.

If you want a 2-D and 3-D projection system buy 2 screens to get the best results from both systems.

-Robert

 

[BMXTRIX]

The properties and characteristics of this fabric help 3-D images by maintaining 99% of the circular or L/R horizontal polarized light.

Pehaps you should elaborate on which home 3-D projectors which are currently in production or announced use polarized light systems for their display of 3-D content before making this recommendation.

If you want a 2-D and 3-D projection system buy 2 screens to get the best results from both systems.

Let me be VERY clear! The current 3-D projectors which use DLP link and the forthcoming models which will likely use a similar technology do NOT use polarized light and do NOT use or require a 3-D screen of this nature.

You do NOT need two screens if you are going to do 3-D, and if you currently have a screen, you can continue using it without issue whatsoever, but the projector will need to be upgraded to one which supports 3-D.

The only exception is if you get a projector which uses a polarized light path. These do exist, and you get theater quality results, but by far, the majority of what we (consumers) will see over the next few years will be active shutter 3-D projection systems which work fine with standard screens.

 

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

Correct ^^ most home theaters will incorporate active 3-D glasses and this screen is designed for passive glasses.

Not sure who will be building polarized 3-D home projectors as most projector manufacturers have not released their product specs at this time. But we are building a dual projector system for 2-D and 3-D use with CP technology.

I was responding to the OP as to the use and type of screen this is and not get into the different 3-D technologies but respond to this particular screen technology and use. However I do agree with everything you said as well.

-Robert

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Have you tried a demo of the active shutter stuff? If so, how is it compromised compared to the IMAX stuff, and to what extent?

I believe me and BMX both went to check out Sony's active shutter based 3D TV in their demo rooms near out according locations and I came independently to basically same conclusions as bmx did, most importantly:

While effect was very impressive and colors/brights were really upto snug, Flicker was very noticeable and very annoying. I really hope they'll polish this problem out, but due to flicker as it is now - i'll pass.

 

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

I think this is one reason why plasmas will deliver the best flat panel 3-D pq. Of course, we'll have to turn up the brightness.

-Robert

 

[BMXTRIX]

I believe me and BMX both went to check out Sony's active shutter based 3D TV in their demo rooms near out according locations and I came independently to basically same conclusions as bmx did, most importantly:

While effect was very impressive and colors/brights were really upto snug, Flicker was very noticeable and very annoying. I really hope they'll polish this problem out, but due to flicker as it is now - i'll pass.

Well, this is why if we are so lucky, we will see some polarized 3D systems come to market from projector manufacturers. Yes, you will need a special screen, like the one discussed here within the post, but what you will get at home will be the actual (or near actual) 3D technology which is used within movie theaters. I mean, seriously, if you don't have to buy 10 pairs of glasses it would save you the price of a second screen by itself, on top of which, the image would be flicker free and truly emulate the movie theater 3-D experience.

I'm hopeful we will see some great offerrings, buy my expectation is that manufacturers will work very hard to capture the $$$ related to 3-D active shutter glasses as a secondary sale item with 3-D technology.

I'm undecided if going with a polarized screen setup is a good thing, but I am sure that the lack of option for a polarized screen setup would definitely be a bad thing.