350 WPC into 150 MAX

[stato]

Will it harm a speaker with a rated input of 150 Watts maximum to run them with 350 WPC if used correctly (not cranking them right up). Alternatively will 130 WPC Rotel power them sufficiently. The speakers in question are Paradigm Studio 60's.

 

[Haoleb]

No you wont harm the speakers, you could have millions of watts per channel and as long as you do not overdrive the speaker by turning it up past its limits your ok.

Also, 130 wpc will be more than enough for those speakers

 

[stato]

Do you think there would be any advantage in having two Rotels bridged to mono 350 w bi-amping them as opposed to the single 130WPC?

 

[mike c]

if you already have the two RB1070's go ahead and experiment which you like:
bridged mono to each speaker
or
bi-amped to each speaker

but if you only have one, believe me, that's more than enough power.

 

[stato]

I actually have the RB981 Mike and was thinking if I could find a used one I would give it a try. Knowing i already have enough power for them is good thanks, I was not sure.

 

[j_garcia]

If you don't NEED that much power to achieve your listening levels, then you aren't going to gain anything by feeding them that much. On the same note, even if you had 500W going to them, if you aren't turning them up to 100% volume, then you aren't feeding them 500W, so don't think that because you are rated for X number of watts that you are actually using them. For "normal" listening the typical draw may only be 10w or less even for those speakers, it is during the dynamic peaks where you really need that unclipped power when trying to achieve high SPLs.

 

[stato]

So for those dynamic peaks 130wpc would not be entirely enough as the 60's can take up to 200w I think it was. I like to listen sometimes at a level that would be considered by others as way too loud but i love it occasionally.

 

[jamie2112]

Your speakers will be fine with 130 watts a channel. The Paradigms are fine with 130 watts. Like it was said earlier in the thread you could run 500 watts to each speaker and as long as you were responsible with the volume you would be fine..

 

[stato]

Could you go louder safer with more than 130wpc ? dont mean to keep harping on about it , just trying to understand. A speaker can handle up to Xwpc and the amp is what controls the speaker, so would it not be better at the more extreme level of use to have an amp that exceeds your rated wpc for that speaker combination. I understand that you only use minimal ammounts of power down low but do you need that extra power when going hard so to speak and keeping control of the speaker? And then I also understand that there is that level of too much power when everything goes pop and you go ... ooops.

 

[jamie2112]

You can hear when a speaker is starting to strain. The more power the more headroom and cleaner the sound . You can run 250 watts to each speaker with no problem. Use your best judgment and turn it down if it starts to sound strained...IE: distortion, popping ,Fireballs coming out of your speakers you know what I am sayin

 

[fmw]

You can hear when a speaker is starting to strain. The more power the more headroom and cleaner the sound . You can run 250 watts to each speaker with no problem. Use your best judgment and turn it down if it starts to sound strained...IE: distortion, popping ,Fireballs coming out of your speakers you know what I am sayin

Sorry, Jamie, I have to disagree pretty vehemently here. "headroom" means an amplifier has enough power above normal levels to handle peaks without clipping (distorting.) Unused power has no effect on anything, contrary to the popular myth. Any power available that is above what is used to drive the speakers doesn't affect the "cleanliness" of sound.

No you cannot run 250 watts to each speaker with no problem. Most home speakers aren't rated for 250 watts and will overheat if so driven. To say that you can use a 250 watt amplifier to deliver 20 watts or 50 watts to the speaker with no problem would be accurate.

 

[j_garcia]

200W max means they can withstand peaks of 200W without frying, but if you were to feed them 200W continuously from a 500W amp, something in the chain (x-over, tweeter, etc...) would definitely fry. As I mentioned, the speakers aren't going to draw 200W while you are doing normal listening, but if you were listening to something that had a lot going on and then you had a big bass hit for example (full range), you might peak up to 200W or draw for a second or two and they will be able to handle it.

 

[annunaki]

Do you think there would be any advantage in having two Rotels bridged to mono 350 w bi-amping them as opposed to the single 130WPC?

It will allow for increased dynamic capability resulting in better overall sound. Especially at higher volume levels.

 

[annunaki]

Sorry, Jamie, I have to disagree pretty vehemently here. "headroom" means an amplifier has enough power above normal levels to handle peaks without clipping (distorting.) Unused power has no effect on anything, contrary to the popular myth. Any power available that is above what is used to drive the speakers doesn't affect the "cleanliness" of sound.

No you cannot run 250 watts to each speaker with no problem. Most home speakers aren't rated for 250 watts and will overheat if so driven. To say that you can use a 250 watt amplifier to deliver 20 watts or 50 watts to the speaker with no problem would be accurate.

This is much more on target as to what is really happening. Let's say we have a speaker that is running at 35 watts continuous average (with music) for a listening volume of 95db in-room at the listening position. If there is a large transient and our amplifier is of the 100 watt variety, it will begin to clip above 100 watts probably around 110 or so. (.1% thd is usually where clipping is said to begin). That leaves only about 4.5db of clean "headroom" available. With a 250 watt amplifier it would leave approximately 8.5db or so. Obviously there is going to be a big difference in sound, especially with highly dynamic program material.

Classical music offers as much as 30db of headroom in places, as a reference to what we are looking at here. Dynamic capability is big if one wants to listen to totally unclipped dynamic in music.

 

[stato]

Thanks for the info ... it makes more sense to me now.. if I have it right more power to the speaker will give me more headroom when i am listening at higher levels which will result in better sound because of a delay in the onset of clipping. I assume that this will be better for my speakers as long as I dont go to the extreme and fry them? When I listen at lower levels there will be no difference as the speakers will only be using a minimal amount of the available power which would be covered either way I have them set up.

 

[j_garcia]

60's will be fine with that kind of power. Happy with 130, but even more happy with 350. It all depends on how loud you intend to listen

 

[MidnightSensi]

annunaki said what I was about to add. But also...

When the signal clips it looks like DC to the speaker causing the cone to go all the way out at full power and all the way in at full power. A speaker is better adapted to handle short durations of higher power (thus their peak rating) then it is to handle full power at longer steady state durations (DC). High power DC can burn out a speaker very quick, and that is why generally speakers blow due to lack of power rather than too much. Obviously use your head with the volume knob regardless, but you will actually have more room for error with more power.

I generally use this rule of thumb:

Take your speakers IEC (program wattage), double it ... and then multiply by .8 and 1.25 to find a range.

So for 150 watt speakers:

150 * 2 = 300 ... then *0.8 = 240 and *1.25 = 375

So for those speakers I would shoot for an amp that has between 240 and 375 watts per channel.

Also note that power supplies generally get better as the amplifier has more power. This is important because current is what we can control from the wall.

 

[stato]

Thats what I was sort hoping for in the beginning. It all goes back to my compulsive behaviour (according to my wife I am just a teen trapped in an adult body.. let me out)... LOL .. love loud music, fast cars etc... You really dont have anywhere to use them but its great to have them any how..

 

[stato]

thanks Midnight.. will have that covered perfectly with a pair of RB981's bridged 350 or 360 watts mono. the big black stack just keeps getting higher.... I am returning to old school for a while, no surround, and are just going to have 2.1 sound for a while but cant wait to get my 60's.... coming over early November.

 

[fmw]

This is much more on target as to what is really happening. Let's say we have a speaker that is running at 35 watts continuous average (with music) for a listening volume of 95db in-room at the listening position. If there is a large transient and our amplifier is of the 100 watt variety, it will begin to clip above 100 watts probably around 110 or so. (.1% thd is usually where clipping is said to begin). That leaves only about 4.5db of clean "headroom" available. With a 250 watt amplifier it would leave approximately 8.5db or so. Obviously there is going to be a big difference in sound, especially with highly dynamic program material.

Classical music offers as much as 30db of headroom in places, as a reference to what we are looking at here. Dynamic capability is big if one wants to listen to totally unclipped dynamic in music.

OK, let's put this into perspective. The 95 db efficient speaker needs 1 watt to produce an SPL of 95db. To get to 100 db requires 4 watts. To get to 110 db requires 16 watts. Personally, I can't listen to 110 db continuously. It would drive me out of the room. So we're quite a way from clipping that 100 wpc amplifier aren't we? Can we clip it? Sure, but it would be an extreme situation - certainly not one you would encounter often. Now the question is can you hear the clipping caused by the cannons in the 1812 overture? Probably not. I don't know where else you would find a 30 db peak in classical music or any other kind of music.

Using words like "big difference in sound" is frankly ridiculous. "no difference in sound would be more accurate." These myths go on and on. I can't explain why. You folks should know better. But I'm here to set the record straight.