2nd Sub: Matching or Complementary?

[herbu]

I'm thinking about replacing my 2nd sub. It is a small KEF. My primary is a Rythmik FV15HP. I'm thinking either another FV15HP or an SVS PB13Ultra. The price difference is small enough that it doesn't matter.

I've done a lot of reading, and don't expect a consensus. And I'm not asking which is "better". My single FV is strong enough to "flex" the windows like a bass drum. My room is fairly large, "T" shaped, with a cathedral ceiling over 2/3 of it. Really odd shape. But with all that, my main listening area is just 2 chairs next to each other, as there are just 2 of us. So I'm not worried about balancing a large listening area. I guess the fact is, I'm just "upgrading" because I can, this stuff is kind of fun, and we spend a fair amount of time in those 2 chairs with TV/Movies/Music.

Is it as important to match subs as it is to match speakers?

With the 1st sub tuned for ultralow, (one port plugged), would you tune the 2nd sub for optimum mid-low, whether it's another FV w/ both ports plugged, or a PB, or even a sealed sub?

I'm wondering if 2 different subs, with strengths in different frequency ranges, would complement each other.

(I have a Denon X4000 AVR, so have pretty good individual control over the 2 subs.)

 

[Steve81]

Personally I don't see much reason to go for the Ultra if you've already got a FV15HP in the house. You might even be able to score a discount from Brian since this would be your second, which would sweeten the deal.

As far as "matching subs", it depends on who you ask. Some have certainly gotten good results without matching subs, and Dr. Earl Geddes' method of doing multiple subs doesn't require identical subwoofers. On the other side of the coin, some folks might point to the potential for additional cancellations due to phase shift when mixing ported subs with different tunes or ported/sealed subs.

 

[herbu]

some folks might point to the potential for additional cancellations due to phase shift when mixing ported subs with different tunes or ported/sealed subs.

That's kinda what I was wondering about. I'm not smart enough to know. A pedestrian analysis might say: The FV15HP w/ one port open gives the house-shaking stuff, and a second sub tuned more for music will fill in any weakness of the HP. But I don't understand enough of the science to know if that really makes sense, or that kind of matching creates more problems than it solves.

Perhaps any weakness in the FV15HP is minute enough that it really doesn't matter to any but the most discriminating expert? One of them would be enough for most folks, and 2 of them should be enough for anybody, and it is the rare bird indeed that could really tell the difference between 2 HPs and 1 HP/1 Ultra, or 1 HP/1 F, or 1 HP/1 SB?

 

[Steve81]

Perhaps any weakness in the FV15HP is minute enough that it really doesn't matter to any but the most discriminating expert?

The only real weakness worth nothing is the potential for port chuffing when running with one port open, and even that is likely to be a rare experience with real world material / usage. Adding a second FV15 in 1 port mode would further reduce that likelihood, though you could also opt to run both in two port mode for max output above 20Hz, and still end up with extremely capable performance down to 16Hz.

One of them would be enough for most folks, and 2 of them should be enough for anybody, and it is the rare bird indeed that could really tell the difference between 2 HPs and 1 HP/1 Ultra, or 1 HP/1 F, or 1 HP/1 SB?

Keep in mind that when you're talking about multiple subs, any improvement isn't automatic. Complementary placement and proper calibration are important in making the most of the second sub.

 

[j_garcia]

Keep in mind that when you're talking about multiple subs, any improvement isn't automatic. Complementary placement and proper calibration are important in making the most of the second sub.

That's what I was going to say - when the question is "complimentary", there is really NO way of knowing if it will actually BE complimentary until you get it in the room and see how the response is together. I say, if you don't plan to dial them in as a system together and/or don't have electronics to do that, then you want identical. Even with identical, you will still face placement and calibration.

 

[herbu]

if you don't plan to dial them in as a system together and/or don't have electronics to do that, then you want identical. Even with identical, you will still face placement and calibration.

I have a Denon X4000 w/ Audyssey Platinum MultEQ XT32, and I WILL use that for the initial setup. But beyond that, and some piddling and experimenting, that's likely it.

Placement options are limited.

 

[j_garcia]

I have a Denon X4000 w/ Audyssey Platinum MultEQ XT32, and I WILL use that for the initial setup. But beyond that, and some piddling and experimenting, that's likely it.

At least half the battle is won then, so you should have far fewer issues going with different ones.

 

[herbu]

At least half the battle is won then

Thanks. At my age, winning half a battle is about as good as it gets.

I'm leaning toward the PB13U, simply because general consensus seems to be there is none better for that price. Lots of debate about whether the FV15HP or two of something else is as good... but not better. I'm inclined to believe another thread that concluded you cannot have too much bass capability. While an FV15HP AND a PB13U is likely overkill, (like Steve said), it is reasonably cheap insurance that I will never, ever, wonder if I have enough subwoofer.

I just want to be sure mixing the subs will not... can not... cause some problems I haven't considered.

 

[crossedover]

If I were you I'd invest in a usb microphone and rew to measure your room response. For less then $100 you can get an accurate picture of your sub 200hz needs and determine which issues can be addressed and if adding a sub carefully placed will do for you.

 

[Jeff R.]

I would match....can't see why you would risk any issues with that kind if money in the table.


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[herbu]

get an accurate picture of your sub 200hz needs

I'm afraid you lost me here. Didn't realize I was addressing any 200Hz needs with my sub(s). Please explain. Thanks.

 

[zhimbo]

"sub 200Hz needs" means "any problems you may have with your in-room frequency response at 200Hz frequency and lower"

 

[herbu]

"sub 200Hz needs" means "any problems you may have with your in-room frequency response at 200Hz frequency and lower"

Ahhh... Thank You!

 

[wldock]

My thoughts on two subs.....what's the point unless you get down and dirty with room correction? Further more.... If one uses matched subs.....there is a strong chance the response from each will be different from the listening position given the sub are in two different different locations. Therefore..matched or not...one needs to get down and dirty with room correction.

 

[herbu]

what's the point unless you get down and dirty with room correction?

More than Audyssey and the floor crawl?
Even if we only use 2 seats? (In fact, we only have 2 chairs in the room. If somebody comes over, I just bring in a chair or chairs from the dining room.)

With one sub in the front pointing directly at us, and another in back pointing directly at us, I'm guessing Audyssey will have a pretty easy time. The really odd "T" shape of the room could mean a particularly difficult exercise trying to balance the whole room. But I'm hoping just 2 seats next to each other won't be to tough. You think I'm being naive?

 

[herbu]

It's done. Went "complementary" with the SVS. I know "tight" and "boomy" are not good audiophile terms, but I gotta say the system bass sounds much tighter now.

With only the FV15HP, I had the sub level set at 12:00, and the AVR sub volume at 0dB.
Before running Audyssey w/ both subs, I set the FV15HP level at 10:00, and the PB13U level at -20dB. Audyssey set the AVR level for each at -4dB. (My AVR has 2 sub outputs and Audyssey Sub EQ, so it "balanced" each sub separately, then together.)

With these settings, the bass in music really does sound "tighter", and less "boomy". Even my wife says she can tell, and likes it.
For big boom movies, I turned the AVR setting for each up from -4dB to 0dB. Holy cow!!!

I don't know if I would see the same improvement w/ 2 FV15HPs or not. Frankly, I'll likely never find out. I like this combo.