S

s002wjh

Junior Audioholic
is 2 svs PB-10ISD or 2 Rocket ULW-10/UFW-10 Sub better than 1 SVS 20-39Plus cylinder sub or not?? I'm try figure out I should get 2 small sub(around 800pair) or 1 sub around 800. also how do you connect 2 sub to a single receiver like yamaha rx-v1600?
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
s002wjh said:
is 2 svs PB-10ISD or 2 Rocket ULW-10/UFW-10 Sub better than 1 SVS 20-39Plus cylinder sub or not?? I'm try figure out I should get 2 small sub(around 800pair) or 1 sub around 800. also how do you connect 2 sub to a single receiver like yamaha rx-v1600?
I am a fan of 2 subs. Unless you are integrating the subwoofer at say 50Hz or lower using a steep crossover, and placing the subwoofer so that it is the same distance from both main speakers relative to the listening position, then I don't like 1 subwoofer. Using 2 subwoofers, you can place one near each main speaker, ensuring optimal seamless integration[assuming that you are using a proper line level crossover to integrate the mains and subwoofers]. You use a mono subwoofer output with no problem on 2 subs: use a Y splitter. It is optimal to have stereo sub feed, but this is not a common feature among recievers. On some music, the low frequencies may not be mono, thus some cancellations may occur by using a mono bass channel. But this is a rare event, and you would probably not notice it when it did occur unless you somewhow could directly A/B compare mono with stereo.

-Chris
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
WmAx said:
I am a fan of 2 subs. Unless you are placing the subwoofer so that it is the same distance from both main speakers relative to the listening position, then I don't like 1 subwoofer.

-Chris
.....and what is unfavorable about "hearing", one sub, not, in the middle of the mains?....(gave a hint there).....
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
mulester7 said:
.....and what is unfavorable about "hearing", one sub, not, in the middle of the mains?....(gave a hint there).....
The integration is not optimal, resulting in a further abnormal amplitude vs. frequency response. With higher frequency crossover points[80Hz for example], the problem can be severe.

-Chris
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
WmAx said:
Using 2 subwoofers, you can place one near each main speaker, ensuring optimal seamless integration[assuming that you are using a proper line level crossover to integrate the mains and subwoofers]
-Chris
.....for second reading....and gum receiver.....
 
S

s002wjh

Junior Audioholic
any opnion on the two svs PB-10ISD vs two Rocket ULW-10/UFW-10 Sub vs two SVS 20-39Plus cylinder(or sub smiliar to that HSU, EP350 etc)????:confused:
 
S

s002wjh

Junior Audioholic
brian32672 said:
If you are looking into 2 subs. Have you looked at the LFM-1 by Outlaw.
They discount something like a 150.00 off on the second sub.
Single sub reviewed here http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/SVS_subsPB2-ISD_OutlawLFM-1_1.php

Direct link to LFM-1 here http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1.html

And it is 159.00 off
thanks for the suggestion, but I notice the rocket ufw10 is also 999 pair. the only question is two $600 sub better than 1 $800-$900 sub for room size of 13x20x8 opening to kitchen 13x15
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Where in the room would you locate two subs? Placement can be very difficult with one. Two can be a nightmare if you have a lot of furniture. What towers are you currently using? Receiver? Can you provide a schematic or digital photo?
 
S

s002wjh

Junior Audioholic
Buckeyefan 1 said:
Where in the room would you locate two subs? Placement can be very difficult with one. Two can be a nightmare if you have a lot of furniture. What towers are you currently using? Receiver? Can you provide a schematic or digital photo?
I plan to buy denon 3805/3806 or yamaha rx-v1600 series receiver. as for speakers axiom M60ti, vp-150, QS8. I will try place each sub inside or outside of 2 main speakers. my room is W13xL20xH8, and opening up to kitchen(W10xL15xH8). I'm not sure for such room 1 or 2 sub is better, don't want spend over $1000 for sub(s).

Length
----------------------------------------- |
kitchen........ L SUB1 TV SUB2 R............|
.........................................................| Width
----------............................................|
----SL------SOFA----SR-------

both sub inside of main speaker, any opinons on the setup?
I don't have too much furniture just a sofa in living room

hey buckeyefan i'm assume you live in ohio?
 
Last edited:
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
s002wjh said:
I plan to buy denon 3805/3806 or yamaha rx-v1600 series receiver. as for speakers axiom M60ti, vp-150, QS8. I will try place each sub inside or outside of 2 main speakers. my room is W13xL20xH8, and opening up to kitchen(W10xL15xH8). I'm not sure for such room 1 or 2 sub is better, don't want spend over $1000 for sub(s).

Length
----------------------------------------- |
kitchen........ L SUB1 TV SUB2 R............|
.........................................................| Width
----------............................................|
----SL------SOFA----SR-------

both sub inside of main speaker, any opinons on the setup?
I don't have too much furniture just a sofa in living room

hey buckeyefan i'm assume you live in ohio?
Of those three receivers, go with the Denon if budget permits. The Yamaha 2500/2600 would be their competition at that level -not the 1600 (although that's a great receiver). The 3805 is going for $700-$800 on the street. Check www.pricegrabber.com for the best deals.

For $1000, I'd probably go with dual PB10's since you have the room. If you want the best answer, call SVS directly on Monday. They'll give it to you straight.

I do live in Ohio, and bleed scarlet and gray. ;)

HUGE week for us. The countdown begins...





 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
Buckeyefan 1 said:
I do live in Ohio, and bleed scarlet and gray. ;)

HUGE week for us. The countdown begins...
]
GO Jaxvon!! :p My Ducks need the help for BCS purposes. And what's a two-time loser like OSU doing in the Top 10, anyway?! (Nothing personal, lol.)

And oh, yeah, I'm with you, otherwise....go with the Denon and the dual PB10s.
 
S

s002wjh

Junior Audioholic
cool ill check with SVS and rocket for more info. I also live in ohio, dayton.

one last question if I do go with dual sub, which one is better two rocket UFW-10 or two PB10-ISD? the rocket sell pair of those for 999.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
s002wjh said:
cool ill check with SVS and rocket for more info. I also live in ohio, dayton.

one last question if I do go with dual sub, which one is better two rocket UFW-10 or two PB10-ISD? the rocket sell pair of those for 999.
easily PB-10. I personally think you should go with that setup.


SheepStar
 
B

Bevan

Audioholic
WmAx said:
The integration is not optimal, resulting in a further abnormal amplitude vs. frequency response. With higher frequency crossover points[80Hz for example], the problem can be severe.

-Chris


WmAx, could you say more about this? i dont quite understand what an abnormal amplitude vs. frequency response is, and why the crossover point or number of subs affects this. many thanks

b.
 
jcPanny

jcPanny

Audioholic Ninja
Ask SVS . . .

SVS will give you their honest opinion based on your room size and budget. I agree with the above posters that two subs will be more dificult to integrate. That being said, the rocket subs have an signle band EQ that will help conteract the effects of room modes. The Rockets won't play as low as the SVS so it is a tradeoff.

Another suggestions, for about 1K you can get the Axiom EP500. Another great option for a single 12" sub.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
Bevan said:
WmAx, could you say more about this? i dont quite understand what an abnormal amplitude vs. frequency response is, and why the crossover point or number of subs affects this. many thanks

b.
In order to have a flat response/linear integration of two merging acoustic signals, they must combine in relative phase rotation to each other according to the crossover type/target response that is desired. If there were only two signals[one main and one sub for example] it would be easy to delay the farther away source to match the same arrival time as the closer source, thus providing for optimal integration of the two signals. However, let's say you have two main channels and one subwoofer. If you locate the subwoofer in a position where it is the same distance from each main speaker relative to the listening position, then you can easily delay the subwoofer and accomplish an excellent integration. But it's not so easy to locate the subwoofer in this fashion, and even if you had the middle space between the mains available for placement, this is usually a very poor location for a subwoofer relative to room interaction(s). If the subwoofer is moved off to one side or in a corner, for example, then the sound sources can never have an ideal integration[unless you are crossing at a very low frequency and with a very steep xover rate, because then the wavelengths become large relative to the room dimensions thus lessening or eliminating the integration problems]. You will have 3 sources in this example. If you have two sources[mains] and an assymetric subwoofer placement[relative to wavelength], you can only compensate for the time differential of one of the mains, not both. This will cause a frequency response error, potentially of large magnitude/cancellation, if at a sufficient placement to combine the signals at the listening position in or at close to phase inversion relative to each other. It is an incidental situation[you can calculate accurately the effect at a specific placment, but then you have to also be able to predict the best room placement acoustically for the subwoofer and have them match up]. You can try to compensate by placing the subwoofer at an assymetric distance where the 2nd arrival is in relative phase[1 cycle delayed, 360 degrees rotated] and also in phase with the other channel[This would require placing the subwoofer in a position where it is 1 wavelength in distance from the farther channel mathematically after compensating for the time delay with the nearer channel. This will usually require a significant effort in room placement and may compromise the main channel placement.]. The easiest/best way to integrate the subwoofer is to use one at very low frequency crossover point with a steep crossover rate[4th order, 40-50Hz would be sufficient for average rooms/distances] or to use 2 subwoofers, one placed near each main speaker. So long as a steep xover rate is used in combination with a low frequency, a single subwoofer will work. However, in the event that a larger room/farther distances are concerned or a higher crossover frequency[remember that much higher frequencies than the xover frequency are still transmitted, dependant on the slope cutoff rate] or a more gradual crossover rate, two subwoofers[one placed near each main channel relative to crossover wavelength] are ideal. In the case of 6" or 7" 2 way speakers, it is most beneficial to crossover at around 80Hz or higher, in order to substantially reduce the cone excursion/incursion in order to reduce modulated phase distortion[a.k.a. Doppler distortion] on moderate to high SPL situations. All of these things must be considered in a particular situation to determine if 1 or 2 subwoofers are appropriate. It needs to be stated that both the subwoofer and mains MUST be crossed over with an accurate line level crossover if the full benefits/ideal integration is to be realized. For a large floor standing 3 way speaker with a 10" woofer, a 40 Hz crossover rate should be no problem. For a 2 way 6.5" woofer speaker, a 40Hz crossover rate would not be sufficient to remove the burden of cone movement from the midrange driver that will hinder performance at moderate to high SPLs.

-Chris
 
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