2 small subs or one big one?

E

ericb

Audioholic Intern
I posted this message in the loudspeaker section but I have not had much success in the past in getting feedback in that section so figured I'd try it out here.

I am looking at replacing sub as I have recently replaced my loudspeakers, centre and receiver and my sub is next in line. I have been advised to match the sub with the Canton Karats M-60 I just purchased. Make sense so far. Now I am also being recommended to purchased 2 ASD-220 to go with it. My only concern is that the ASD-220 has only a 9inch sub. Can I still get room rumbling, nice low bass out of a 9inch? THe price is right as I am getting 50% off as one of the 2 is a floor model and Ive become a preferred customer, but is are there subs out there capable of producing serious bass with a 9inch sub? Even with 2 of them? The specs are listed below to help anyone in answering these questions. I am running all of this through the pioneer elite vsx-53. Considering switching for the denon avr-3805. any comments on any of this? see sub specs below. Thanks...

Technical Data

Active subwoofer system

Engineering Principle Bass reflexsystem

Nominal/musical output 70/120 watts

SPL (1 watt/1m)

Frequency response 25...150 Hz

Crossover frequency 50...150 Hz (adjustable)

Woofer 220 mm (9''), cellulose/graphite membrane

Dimensions (WxHxD) 25,5 x 38 x 40 cm
(10.0'' x 15.0'' x 15.7'')

Weight 12.5 kg


Special features Adjustable crossover frequency
Adjustable bass level
Switchable phase adjustment
SC-technology
 
N

nm2285

Senior Audioholic
My guess is that the 2 sub setup will be fine and probably better than a larger sub. How large is your room? If it is really big, I'd recommend getting 2 bigger subs.
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
As nm2285 hinted, a lot will depend on the size of your room. 9" is a bit small for making the room "rumble", but two of them might do the trick unless your room is large-ish (say, significantly over 20 feet in any dimension). I don't know the speakers in question but if they can really produce down to 25hz as claimed at a good listening level that's pretty good for a small sub.

The nice thing about having two subs is that you can more easily cancel room modes (causing uneven and "boomy" bass) with placement.

The production of very low frequencies at a satisfying level largely depends on the volume of air a driver can push related to the total volume of air in a given room. This comes down to two things: driver size and excursion (how far back & forth the cone can move). Size is probably the most important. Like they say in boxing: a good big one will always beat a good little one.
 
E

ericb

Audioholic Intern
the room is 13 feet by 17 feet. The canton front speakers also produce surpisingly good bass and can almost make the room rumble on their own. I will give them a try and simply return them if not satisfied.

Anyone familiar with the pioneer elite VSX 53? I bought it at the spurr of the moment type thing. It is working fine, but after purchasing it, I've been reading a lot on the Denon 3805. The denon has more bells and whistles, (none that I truely need and dont get out of the Elite), but if the sound would be better using the denon, I would switch.
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
If your main speakers have adequate bass for music and all you want the sub for is the very lowest bass sfx in movies, then maybe one big 12", 15", or 18" honker in a corner is all you need "to instill primal fear" as Siegfried Linkwitz says. That could even be a DIY project to save some bucks and enjoy the smell of sawdust (aaahh, nothing like it!). There's one on his site called the "Thor"; Parts Express has kits and drivers that look promising, too.

www.linkwitzlabs.com

www.partsexpress.com

www.diysubwoofers.org
 
Last edited:
Dan

Dan

Senior Audioholic
I have two subs and I agree with Rip that they will fill a room more evenly than one. My subs have three 8" drivers each. The surface area equals a 14' driver. The manufacturer claims they can go down to 8 Hz +/- 3 dB! The key is that they are NOT ported. Porting produces a large volume peak at the port frequency but rolls off steeply below that. To maintain linear response at the lowest frequency a non ported design is better. Porting will give you a bigger boom though just not as low. Two nine inch woofers will give you the surface area of a 12.7" driver. They will be lighter and therefore faster both to start and stop which should make the bass tighter.
 
E

ericb

Audioholic Intern
Title

Dan,

Thanks for the info. Are you, or anyone, familiar or have experience with the sub in question? The Canton ASD-220? Also, I appologise for the stupid question, but afterall, this is the beginner section, what do you mean by porting? Is this something I will need to do? Do I need to purchase anything additional to do so?

Thanks again,

Eric
 
E

ericb

Audioholic Intern
Diy

Rip,

thanks for the tips, but NOTHING good can come out of DIY project when I am involved!
 
Dan

Dan

Senior Audioholic
A ported speaker is one that has a hole in the enclosure. This is a manufacturer produced entity. Do not drill holes in your speaker enclosures! The size and location are designed to emphasize a certain frequency range usually in the bass range which the drivers cannot otherwise reproduce. Ports produce an increase in efficiency as well (they will sound louder than an identical sealed enclosure with the same power driving it). The sacrifice is a degree of linearity in frequency response and a fairly sharp rolloff at frequencies below that at which the port is tuned. That frequency is varied by port location, the enclosure design and size. You can usually tell roughly where the frequency is by looking at a response curve of the speaker where there will be a bass hump below which there is roll off. The port may not be visible in some subwoofers depending on whether or not the grill comes off. The port also does not need to face in the same direction as the driver.

Sorry, but I am not familiar with your sub. Happy woofing.
 
E

ericb

Audioholic Intern
Done

thanks for all the help and prompt replies. I finally, not installed but at least ordered, 2 subs. I chose to go with 2, but instead of 8inch, went with the step up Canton ASD-250 which is the same downfire sub but with more power and 10inch subs vs the 8". I'll drill the holes once hey get here as Dan suggested and see how much difference it makes :)
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
sub facts-and subjective

it's surprising to me that more people don't realize the advantage of a large sub. to move the same air, a large driver moves less,and more slowly. since kinetic energy is related to the square of the velocity, the larger object moving more slowly, saves energy. also, if the woofer moves more slowly, the back emf isn't as much, so it will draw more power, for the same voltage. the compound differences are staggering.
 
E

ericb

Audioholic Intern
Size does Matter

I agree and I think we do realise. However when I started this thread I was in a situation where I could either get one big one or 2 small. I opted for 2 10inchers of decent quality rather than one of lower quality. (got em at 50% off because one was a floor model and I have spent large amounts of money recently there...) and they blow my old 12 inch as well as my old 15 inch out of the water. Next year I plan on upgrading to two 15 inchers. I just enjoy this musical clean precise bass over lots of bass that simply sounds muffled. if that an understandle word... but for sure, once the budget permits, I will get bigger :) Cuz we all know SIZE DOES MATTER!
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
DO NOT DRILL HOLES IN A SEALED ENCLOSURE!!!!!!!!

Sealed enclosures are usually 25%-50% SMALLER than ported enclosures. An optimum ported enclosure is designed around the woofer and it's Theile/Small parameters. i would suggest a large, sealed subwoofer (12,15,or 18 inch) if it will be used only for the lowest frequencies (40hz and down). Overall ias a system, a large suboofer is more efficent at producing low frequencies, mainly due to surface area. Two 10" subs sealed, would also do nicely. if you have more questions do not be afraid to speak up. :)
 
E

ericb

Audioholic Intern
What do you mean dont drill holes?

LOL... that was a touch of sarcasm, I didnt, and wouldnt drill holes. Why would you recommend 2 10 inch sealed vs 2 10inch ported? Just curious as I have been suggested the opposite in the past and curious to see what debates can come up. Any opinions on downfiring subs?
 

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